Clint and Kate finally come face to face as we break down the big moments on Hawkeye Episode 2, “Hide and Seek”. After finding — and losing — the Ronin suit, Clint has to head to a LARPing group in Central Park to get it back. Meanwhile, Kate tangles with Jack, and finds out a lot more than she bargained for. Plus, all the Easter eggs, Marvel Comics references, and lots of speculation about what’s next.
Full Episode Transcript:
Alex: Welcome to Marvel Vision, a podcast about Marvel, the MCU, and right now, Hawkeye episode two.
Justin: Hawk Guy.
Alex: Hawk Guy episode two. They haven’t said that yet, very interesting, but I have said my name, it’s Alex.
Justin: And I, my name is Hawk guy, Justin.
Pete: I’m Pete.
Alex: And as mentioned, we’re going to be talking about the second episode of Hawkeye on Disney Plus. If you haven’t seen it, go watch it because we’re going to spoil the heck out of it. But brief bit of recap before we get into here, most of episode one was spent catching up with Clint Barton after all of the Avengers movies and all of the Infinity saga, as we are wanting to call it now.
Justin: Okay, yeah.
Alex: He’s been a little bummed out about stuff, specifically his role in the death of Black Widow, something that popped up again when he went to see Rogers the Musical on Broadway, with his kids-
Pete: [crosstalk 00:00:58] Bother anybody.
Alex: It didn’t bother anybody?
Pete: No, I said it would bother anybody.
Alex: Oh, sure.
Justin: Right. Yes.
Alex: Yes, absolutely.
Justin: You know, when you go see a musical…
Alex: Except for Scarlett Johansson, yes.
Justin: When I see Wicked, I feel guilty about how I had a hand in- [crosstalk 00:01:11]
Pete: As you should.
Justin: Of the Wicked Witch of the West.
Pete: I mean, spoiler.
Alex: I was there for that.
Pete: It turns out fine at the end.
Pete: In the musical, a little bit of a twist.
Justin: That’s why you got to be careful who you throw water on.
Alex: So as I was saying about the show Hawkeye, what happens here is he gets involved in the life of new vigilante because you sees somebody running around in his Ronan in suit, which he used to kill a bunch of people while everybody was blipped away for five years. And he still feels bad about that as well, so Clint Barton, very bummed out about a lot of things. It isn’t until the very end, he meets up with this person who takes up the bulk of the episode, who is Kate Bishop played by Hailee Steinfeld. And we get to find a lot more about her. She was inspired by Hawkeye at the battle of New York, she eventually trained herself to be this…incredible basically at everything, certainly archery.
Alex: But also sword play, and a bunch of other sports. And she gets embroiled in this thing with her new potential stepdad, Jacques Duquesne. Did I say it right this time?
Justin: That’s correct, I believe.
Alex: Yes. AKA the Swordsman, as we know-
Justin: Though I do think they say Jack, they say Jack.
Justin: It’s just spelled in the French style. Jacques.
Alex: Yes, but Jack Duquesne, and he is romancing her mom, her dad died, we think in the battle of New York, and at the end-
Justin: I bet he didn’t.
Alex: I bet he didn’t as well. And…it’s Brian d’Arcy James, you got to bring him back at some point.
Pete: There was a lot of building missing.
Alex: He’s big Broadway star, speaking of Broadway shows.
Justin: Yes. Exactly.
Alex: In any case, by the end of the last episode, they finally came face to face after being attacked by the tracksuit mafia. And this episode, we get a lot more about that. So they kind of feel each other out and figure each other out. We get more of that dynamic. We know from the comic book where Kate is just very lovingly needling Clint pretty much all the time. He doesn’t want to be there. All he wants is the suit back. Ultimately, he goes to some LARP-ing in central park to get it back, which he does, mind you.
Alex: And then by the end of the episode, they are both captured by the tracksuit mafia, who seemingly is led by Maya Lopez, AKA Echo, played by Alaqua Cox. Not only is she showing up here, but we already know is getting her own spinoff series on Disney Plus in the next couple of years, so obviously they’re all in on her. She is a big new character, so that’s very exciting. Lots of other things to talk about in the episode. But as we continue the series here, I think we were all pretty positive about the first episode, though surprised, or at least two of us were surprised about the heavy focus on Kate Bishop in particular, over Clint Barton. What’d you think about the balance here in this episode, first of all, do you feel like it went back or is it still the Kate Bishop show?
Justin: I feel like it’s shifted over to the partnership, the duo here in a good way. And it’s also much more fun. This is what I was talking about in the last episode. We get a lot more fun here. Clint is very much like, hey Kate!
Pete: Oh, now you’re having fun?
Justin: Well the show’s having more fun! The whole LARP-ing thing-
Pete: You’re talking about the first episode!
Justin: No, I think you know what I mean.
Justin: This, it feels like Clint…the whole LARP-ing thing was fun. We’re calling out his seriousness as a thing. It’s like, hey man, it feels like this show is like, hey, lighten up. This is actually fun what you’re doing. And I appreciate that. And on the other side of it, I feel like Kate had less to do, much less to do in this episode. She sort of was doing a lot of like, Hey, Clint, I’m here.
Pete: How dare you? She has a new…stepfather, maybe. She’s dealing with a lot. How dare you.
Justin: I’m just saying, it felt like she was…it was a lot of her texting in this episode, which I think is fine. I’m not down on it-
Pete: That’s super on-brand, Justin! Come on!
Justin: It’s pretty well-balancing, dude!
Alex: Justin, you’re not really familiar with what we teens are like. We text a lot.
Pete: Yeah, exactly.
Alex: A lot.
Justin: But I thought for sure it was going to be a lot of like, here’s my landline number, or if you want to fax me, just feel free to send it here.
Pete: What year do you live in?
Justin: Right to the intention. Right.
Alex: Usually, you write a letter, hand it to the man on the horse, and then he rides several states over to deliver it, right?
Justin: Yes. I should ask, where should I send my wax cylinder of what I’m recording here for the podcast? Do I mail it to you, Alex? And you-
Alex: Just give it to Samuel… Man-Who-Invented-Records. I forget his name.
Justin: Ah, Samuel Man-Who-Invented- yeah.
Alex: Pete, what did you think about this episode? Obviously you’re pretty high on the first one, so how are you feeling about the balance here? How’d you feel about the Clint stuff?
Justin: You’re pretty high.
Pete: You’re goddamn right, I’m wasted. Also, I think it’s one of those things where this is a blast. I’m having a great time. This is just like, serious guy forced to not take himself seriously. Great. I think we got more Kate Bishop in the last episode, maybe a little less, but it’s still very Kate Bishop driven. We called out pizza dog for pizza dog. I’m happy where things are going. This is a good time.
Alex: I think I’m… I don’t know if I’m halfway between you guys necessarily, but I actually felt like it was pretty Kate Bishop driven, like Pete is saying here, to less of a degree. She’s not necessarily the opening credits. Now we just got like a small little sting with a Hawkeye title sequence. So we don’t see her training there necessarily. So they’re definitely bringing them together, and I think by the end of the episode, obviously they are physically together. And I think that’s what we’re going to see over the course of the next four episodes. But still, most of what is happening here, there’s the whole LARP-ing sequence and there’s some stuff with Clint’s kids, and that’s fine.
Pete: That’s fun.
Alex: But for the most part, the really interesting stuff is happening with Kate. What’s happening with Jack, that sword fight in the middle was awesome.
Justin: That was cool.
Pete: It really was.
Alex: I loved how that played out. That was very cool. And I do think, I know Pete’s going to yell at me here, but I do think the LARP-ing, I know the path we’re on is getting clipped out of a shell, and Justin you were saying having more fun, but even now I’m like, are we at this point of society where we’re still making fun of LARP-ing? I feel like that was-
Pete: What are you talking about, making fun of LARP-ing? LARP-ing was a huge part of the episode, and maybe Clint’s not cool with it, but everybody else in that scene was having the time of their lives, so go fuck yourself.
Alex: He was so [inaudible 00:07:40] in this whole thing. He was like, no, no, no.
Pete: Yeah, but he’s also the curmudgeon, the one on the outside. He’s the only one not having fun.
Alex: Here’s what I wanted. I’m going to arm chair rewrite this episode.
Justin: Oh, this is going to be crazy.
Alex: What I wanted in that scene, where he was going through and chopping through everybody, I wanted to see him get more into you. Like realize, okay, I am having a good time thwacking all these people, because by the time he gets to the guy, guy’s like, come on, you’re having a good time. And he’s like, no, I’m not.
Pete: No, I’m not.
Alex: And that’s not fun to watch as a viewer. You know, I want to see-
Pete: Alex, if you were a professional Avenger and you have to LARP, I don’t know if you’re going to get into it, all right? I don’t know.
Justin: I think Alex’s point though is, we want this character to be more fun. And I feel…cause I agree with you, if he, over the course, especially of that slow-mo montage, which I thought was awesome.
Pete: So much fun.
Justin: And he slowly just got into it, and then was throwing a cardboard knife at someone, like Jake hit him in the chest…something fun there. Instead we get a little cracked smile, I feel like, over the course of that. And if it’s a slow progression about him slowly becoming the littlest bit of a fun person, fine, that’s a weird full season arc for me. But I do think we’ve made a couple steps in the right direction.
Justin: And the show feels more fun with Kate and Clint together, her making mistakes, him being like, here we go again with this, that energy is a classic.
Pete: Yeah. But that’s the fun of it, right? He’s a curmudgeon, so having him having fun is not part of what the show is. Seeing him miserable and the LARP-ing is great, because it is fun. It is cool. Everybody’s having fun around him and he’s miserable. It’s a cool idea, I thought they did it really well.
Justin: But, I guess what I’m saying is if he…sorry, Alex. It doesn’t take anything away for him to enjoy it more, I think. The scene still plays in a way. And especially when so much of his story revolves around, honey, I’m definitely going to be home for Christmas. I’m just-
Pete: Please, calm down.
Justin: We are ahead of this character, let him loose a little bit, rather than this very…we know.
Pete: I don’t know why you guys keep writing ahead of this character. He is who he is. He sees who he has been in the other movies. He’s not all of a sudden going to just magically get better. It’s going to be an uphill battle!
Alex: I know, but I don’t like who he was in the other movies and I want him to be different here. That’s all.
Pete: You can’t.
Justin: Yes, you can’t.
Alex: I know. I get it. You’re not wrong, Pete. You’re 100% correct that this is consistent with the Clint Barton that we know in every single movie. To Justin’s point, this thing that he’s going to get into… by the sixth episode, be like, you know what? Christmas is pretty fine. [crosstalk 00:10:41] Come on, do that four episodes ago, I’ll actually show I’m investing my time! It’s fine. It’s absolutely fine.
Pete: It is fine, because the LARP-ers were having a great time, though. Some fun, slow motion stuff. And the fact that he had to lose was even better, cause he hated it.
Justin: That was fun.
Pete: I didn’t think he was going to do it. I didn’t think he would be able to concede, it was impressive that he did.
Justin: And I will say, if you take a step back and look at the idea, the LARP-ers were so self serious, very Hawkeye thing to do. And he was being sort of condescending about the whole thing, but he was also there to pick up a ninja costume. It’s totally like…I think that that joke or that funny idea was on the table there, but they never really pointed at it to make to complete the reference, like, hey I know you think you’re better than this, but you’re here for an equally dumb reason. So why don’t you enjoy, we’re all here doing basically this same thing. You’re just a more professional LARP-er.
Pete: Come on. Basically the same thing? That is not true, sir.
Justin: You’re a LARP-er. Hey Hawkeye, you’re a LARP-er where Thanos has a really cool cardboard sword.
Pete: Come on, dude. There’s a little bit more at stake when he fights Thanos then fucking LARP-ing.
Alex: I mean, don’t put down LARP-ing like that, Pete.
Justin: Yeah Pete, you’re so down on LARP-ing.
Alex: The dynamic does come into play though in this episode very heavily, and it is funny to me how quickly it turns with Kate, from her being like, wow, I’m your biggest fan, I can’t believe I’ve meeting you. To like, here’s 15 problems that you have, Clint, and why you suck, and I’m going to keep texting you and needling you.
Justin: That’s great.
Pete: Oh my God.
Alex: And the stuff at the end, again, not to keep getting ahead of it, but at the end when Kate falls through the skylight and they’re both tied to those little hobby horses and the track suit mafia is following them, facing them down. I was like, great. This is it, this is the show. This is where we’re going to be living hopefully for the next couple of episodes. Awesome. And I did have a problem with taking the two hours to get there because I have been enjoying myself, but it definitely feels more comfortable to be in this place that we’re at in the finale-
Pete: You couldn’t enjoy the ride? I thought the ride was a great time. And also the whole thing-
Alex: Here’s the thing about taking rides, Pete. Have you ever been on a road trip because everybody’s like, enjoy the ride. And a lot of that is just empty space with signs plugging McDonald’s 15 miles from here, so that’s more-
Pete: What about south of the border? Those are fine. You never sausage shuts in place?
Alex: Now we are finally at the biggest ball of twine in the MCU. That’s where we are at right now. Okay. I’m very excited about enjoy the ride.
Pete: Enjoy the ride, my friend.
Alex: I’m going to throw something else at you, while I’m needling Pete! Okay? Because I’ve been thinking about this. With these first two episodes, you are absolutely going to hate this, Pete. So I’m sorry, but I 100% stand by this statement. After two episodes, Hawkeye is what the Marvel Netflix shows wanted to be, but could never execute properly.
Pete: What are you saying out loud? What just happened? What does that even mean? I-
Alex: The Marvel Netflix shows are these street level shows with just people having big, crazy street fights, often in hallways. There’s a lot of good emotional stuff. There’s a lot of stuff that I liked in there, but they were always 10 to 15 minutes too long. And equally at the same point, like five to 10% too slow.
Pete: Hey, Alex.
Alex: Yes. Hi. What’s up?
Pete: Alex, why don’t you take a step back from the microphone and punch yourself in the face, you piece of shit! Fuck you! Some of the Marvel TV shows were some of the best things that’s ever happened!
Alex: Oh, some of them? A couple?
Pete: And the only reason we’re here right now, so go take a step back and go fuck yourself.
Alex: The only reason we’re here right now?
Pete: Yeah, exactly right.
Alex: Oh, that’s right. I forgot your parents conceived you during Jessica Jones season two.
Justin: That’s true.
Pete: First off, we all know Jessica Jones season two wasn’t the best thing.
Justin: Wow, instant.
Justin: Let me throw this out here. Can you both be wrong? Can we un-have this conversation at all?
Alex: I don’t know, I stand by this point because I do think there are a lot of things to like about the Marvel Netflix shows, but-
Pete: A ton of shit.
Alex: The pace, even with the things that you liked were always a little too slow. This speeds it up. This is getting through quicker. It’s still having the ground level stuff and the fun fights and the quips. But-
Pete: Jessica Jones season one was perfection. Absolutely perfection. [crosstalk 00:15:06] Daredevil was a ton of fun. Luke Cage was ground breaking, go fuck yourself. Some of the-
Alex: Second season of Luke Cage?
Justin: Let me just interject here, because we could hear Pete do this for the rest of our lives and probably will.
Alex: He could do this all day!
Pete: Yeah, exactly.
Justin: But why do you draw a comparison to the Netflix shows? Are you saying, because it is this sort of street level crime plot?
Alex: That is exactly why.
Justin: Cause I agree with you and I think it is all executed better, like the tracksuit mafia, all that stuff is fun. It’s funny-
Justin: …in the right ways. But they’re also threatening, and it’s also the way that these characters are making mistakes is something that the Netflix shows could never pull off. It was always a little bit like, we know where this is going. It’s taking too long. I’m getting a little bit frustrated with watching this. And in this show, things are moving quickly. We get to see Kate mess up a bunch in a fun way, which is a classic Clint-Hawkeye thing to do, but she gets to do it a lot. And I think that’s a great choice that they made.
Alex: Well, what it sort of is, to get back to the comics for a second, is later Kate to me? Kate in Hawkeye, the Matt Fraction David Aja series, is kind of better at it than Clint.
Alex: Clint is constantly getting the shit kicked out of him. He’s getting beat up, he’s covered in bandages. And Kate is like, oh boy, what are you doing here. Later Kate in the comics, they let her take on a little bit of that Clint-ness from that initial Hawkeye book. And I feel like that’s what they’re looping in here, that Hailee Steinfeld is leaning into really nicely, and it’s very fun to watch. The whole sequence, breaking it-
Pete: It is fun to watch. So maybe just enjoy it and stop fucking comparing it to other shit and punching down maybe a show that came earlier to help this show happen, you piece of shit!
Justin: Criticizing any television show is not punching down. No, that’s not what that means.
Alex: Also, our podcast is definitely not punching down on the multi-million dollar Marvel Netflix shows. If anything, I’m barely scratching…I don’t know, first thing I thought of was scrotum. It was about as far as I could reach.
Pete: Oh wow, why would that be the first thing you thought of?
Pete: What is your deal?
Justin: Interesting. Wait, could you just lay out what actually, analogy?
Pete: Are you all right?
Alex: Well, because I’m a little guy and I’m trying to scratch, and that’s as far as I can reach.
Justin: So you would say this show really scratches the scrotum, is what…let me just try to get your statement.
Alex: No, it’s above it. It’s just, it punches down.
Pete: Somebody says scratch, and you think scrotum?
Justin: He said it! [crosstalk 00:17:49]
Pete: Scrotum. I’m the fucking weirdo, that’s unbelievable.
Alex: Nobody said you were the weirdo. So there’s a couple of other sequences we should probably talk here. I know I mentioned it earlier, but the sword fight is great, where-
Alex: Kate faces down Jack, is trying to get information-
Pete: Proves he’s a liar!
Alex: Proves he’s a liar. I loved how this played out. I loved that there were four beats to this.
Alex: You expect, they fight, he’s like, no, no, no, no. Because she gets three points on him while they’re doing the sword play, while they’re doing the sword fight. And then it isn’t until she attacks him right after that when he’s not looking, that he knocks the sword out of her hand. And that’s the thing that proves to her like, oh, okay, this guy is 100% lying about stuff. I also love the moment right before that, the dinner table thing where she says, come on, let’s have a sword fight right now. And he’s like, I don’t think we should do that. And she’s like, why not? And he is like, okay, and Vera Farmiga responding. And also being like, why not? That was the thing that could-
Pete: That’s what pushed you?
Alex: Yeah. So fun. Just great sequence across the board.
Justin: Well, and I really like-
Pete: Those two were itching to fucking fight someone because you’re a psychopath. It was really-
Justin: You’re itching or scratching, I guess you could say? I really like the way these characters, Jack and Kate’s mom, are menacing. They’re not doing a lot of menacing things, but the way they’re playing these characters is menacing. And I really like that as a sort of storm cloud over the show being like, they’re going to be trouble down the line. And the way he knocks her sword out of her hand and it spins on its head. I was like, this guy’s way deadlier than we’ve seen it.
Pete: I agree with you, Justin, this is the storm shadow. And Ronan is like the snake eyes. You know what I mean? I agree with what you’re saying.
Justin: I don’t think that’s what I’m…let me say Pete, that’s the second worst analogy I’ve heard on this show today.
Alex: The big Russian guy who works for Echo though, I would say, is like the barbecue? Is that one of the characters?
Pete: Wow. Yes. Yeah.
Alex: Oh great.
Pete: Yeah. Nice job.
Justin: And Clint is like the-
Justin: Chocolate volcano? Which GI Joe is, which chocolate volcano is which GI Joe?
Alex: Kate is like the edible arrangement, I would say.
Justin: Oh, I love-
Pete: Oh yeah.
Alex: It’s all a bunch of fun party foods.
Justin: That’s really good.
Alex: You guys aren’t as close.
Justin: You brought different mangoes.
Alex: What did you think? This is the only moment in the episode that stood out to me as being real forced and weird. I’m fine with it happening, Pete. I’m not mad about it. I’m just asking about it and pointing it out. The butterscotch moment. And the reason I say that is because-
Pete: Come on. What are you talking about?
Alex: It came up in the previously odd. And I was like, the butterscotch? Why are we talking about this? [crosstalk 00:20:39]
Pete: That’s how she knew he was evil.
Alex: There was no reason for him to offer- I know that. There’s no reason for him to offer a butterscotch, though.
Pete: If you’re an evil person and you monogram butterscotch, you’re going to go around offering, that’s how it works.
Alex: No, that was Armand, monogrammed the butterscotch. And I want to remind you again, it should have been almonds so it could be Armand’s almonds.
Justin: Again. I think, I thought we cut that out of the last episode.
Pete: I thought we hadn’t added it.
Alex: That was my big problem with it, is that it wasn’t almonds…
Justin: Well, cause I agree with you. When I saw the butterscotch in the previous-
Pete: What are you agreeing with?
Justin: That when I saw, I’m explaining it, when I saw the butterscotch-
Alex: The big Russian guy is the barbecue of the show. That’s what it’s like.
Justin: Yes. Let me just track back and really get into the barbecue of it all.
Justin: No, when I saw the butterscotch of the previous one, I was like, oh no, this is going to be weird however it plays. And then when he did it, I was like-
Pete: Overwhelmed butterscotch.
Justin: I was like, on its surface, that’s pretty lame. But let me throw out this theory: what if he is trolling her? He’s being like, yo, you want this butterscotch? You know where I got this, because I know that you were there.
Pete: He’s playing with her.
Justin: Yeah. And I think he-
Pete: The sword fight continued past the sword fighting, and it was a great move on his part because after she stormed off, he loved every second of it.
Justin: Yeah. And I think puts him-
Pete: She was like, what’s that about? And he put it in his mouth. He was like, (evil laughter).
Justin: That puts him in-
Alex: Choked on the butterscotch a little bit because he was laughing too hard as a villain.
Justin: What a way to go.
Justin: I think that puts him position where, I mean he’s in between, he’s trying to troll Kate while at the same time, not be too mean to her in front of her mom, who he ostensibly loves or has a relationship with.
Pete: It’s like…
Justin: He can be a dick. It’s a great way to be a dick, is to get out a loaded candy.
Pete: [crosstalk 00:22:22] Not flexing all over us all the time. You know, it’s-
Alex: And it does, we should also mention it ties back to the comics. There’s those classic ads where they capture the swordsman by throwing out a bunch of butterscotch in front of him. And he is like, ooh, got to have by Werther’s, and then grabs them and eats them.
Pete: Well, I’m glad we’re talking about Werther’s, because if you’re going to butterscotch, I mean that’s the best way to go.
Alex: It’s the original. It’s the original, Pete.
Justin: I like the updated Werther’s, they really started to expand the brand a little bit.
Alex: New Werther’s? Crystal Werther’s?
Pete: We talking about the chews?
Justin: I like Crystal Werther’s, I like Werther’s Code Red is my favorite.
Pete: Don’t play with my emotions.
Alex: I buy, your explanation of the butterscotch makes sense to me by the way, Justin. I think I didn’t catch on to that, but I’ll buy that.
Justin: I’m trying to give the character in the show a little more credit and I hope that’s the way it goes.
Alex: Well, I think that’s how Tony Dalton is playing it, and I’ll continue to double down. He’s so good.
Justin: So good.
Alex: And even better in this episode, the way that he is constantly smiling underneath that mustache? Terrifying.
Justin: And that mustache is goofy as shit. And the fact that he’s still menacing underneath that real Mark Twain stem-winder of a stash is amazing.
Pete: Yeah. The fact that he is still creepy styles underneath that goofy shit is impressive, but it is well done. It’s a fun combo.
Alex: Couple of other things that I’ll mention. The whole fight at Kate’s apartment, I thought was great. Just really well done with the fire and everything that was fun. [crosstalk 00:23:53] Catching the bottle and throwing it back.
Justin: And her getting the shot, getting the arrow into the Molotov cocktail, they made a lot of Molotov cocktails.
Alex: I also love the pizza guy being like, come on, what are you doing? You’re burning my place here. And they’re like, I don’t know, I don’t know what we’re doing. That was very true to-
Justin: We keep that fire in the oven for the pizzas! That’s all up everywhere else!
Alex: What are you doing? The other thing we should talk about though, we mentioned her earlier, we only get a very little bit, but what did you think about this introduction of Maya Lopez at the end of the episode, and what do you think she means for the series going forward?
Pete: Well, that’s a huge villain reveal, that whole kind of set up, the hallway, the whole thing was very dramatic and I thought very cool. And it’ll be interesting to see how it plays out, for sure.
Justin: I thought it was going to be, I thought Echo was going to be introduced in a much smaller way. The fact that she’s sort of the button on this whole episode, I was like, oh, I think she will have a larger role. And the fact that she’s running the Tracksuit mafia, I’m like, that’s weird.
Pete: Oh yeah.
Justin: Cause in the comics, Echo is sort of a fridge player, sort of has her own agenda. And now the fact that she’s like running some very doofy criminals feels like she’s going to be coming from a different place here.
Alex: And for those who don’t know her, we’re definitely going to find out more about her the next episode. But at least in the comics, she can copy other people’s movements. She is deaf. So there’s certainly a potential there for her to work in some way with Hawkeye. Maybe one of the things that we’re not dealing with that we touch on very briefly in this episode, is Hawkeye now having a hearing aid. We get that great montage where Kate asks him, why do you have a hearing aid? And it just flashes to every enormous explosion he’s been next to. And he’s like, it’s a long story. So maybe that is the thing that’s holding him back. The fact that he hasn’t been able to compensate for that, and he is feeling weaker in some way because he is hearing impaired. Maybe Echo is going to teach him, no, there’s a way to use this as your super power instead of a hindrance.
Justin: Yeah. That’s a great call.
Alex: But the question is: if she is a villain, how does that happen? But I get the sense that she’s probably not, right?
Justin: Yeah. I mean it, we don’t know.
Pete: Seems like she is though, at the end of the ep.
Justin: But yes, she’s running the tracksuit mafia, but let’s remember the tracksuit mafia’s whole thing was to break into this evil auction where they were selling a watch from Avenger’s tower, that she seems to want to get her hands on for some reason. So they weren’t doing necessarily bad things. It’s just funny how doofy they are, and she seems very serious, then she’s in charge of them.
Alex: Yeah. I’ll throw out something else to you that sort of ties into a discussion that we were having earlier. And there’s been lots and lots of rumors about this. When they mention that the track, there was a lot of time spent talking about Ronan decimating the underworld of New York, as well as obviously other cities. Killing people there, changing a whole balance of power and everything. And there was some brief mention about how the tracksuit mafia, oh, I think what he’s talking to Linda Cardellini, he’s like, I don’t know how high this goes up, where this goes all the way to the top. There’s been a lot of rumors about Vincent D’Onofrio potentially coming back as Kingpin?
Pete: Go fuck yourself, that would be amazing.
Alex: It would be amazing, because he is absolutely fantastic.
Alex: As Kingpin…Pete, you and I agree, one of the few good things to come out of the Marvel Netflix shows-
Pete: You’re a piece of shit.
Justin: Wow. Pete turned his mic on.
Alex: It would be very interesting if they dealt with, yes, this is part of continuity. Kingpin is part of continuity, Ronan came in, decimated the underworld. What happens to Kingpin in that king place?…What happens? What is his place there? Maybe Echo has taken over the tracksuit mafia while he is rebuilding somewhere else. Maybe she works directly for him, there’s certainly a long tradition in the comics of female badass characters working directly for the Kingpin in some capacity. So I don’t know. Possibilities there.
Justin: Do you think that’s a, end of season reveal? Kingpin?
Alex: I think yes, if they’re going to do it, and if they were going to keep it secret, the way of doing that is end credit sequence in the final episode.
Justin: Oh man. Agree, I think it’d be weird if Kingpin came in early here.
Pete: Or the greatest.
Justin: Okay, counterpoint.
Alex: Yeah, good counterpoint. What other moments for the episode would you like to call out, if any? Pete? Or Justin.
Pete: First off, the fact that we got pizza dog out there, you know what I mean? Like it’s out there early, really pushing this. So hopefully we can get an all pizza dog ep.
Justin: Pizza dog pushing the pizza-agenda to the masses here.
Pete: I just think that I’m really happy with the way things are moving forward, and the relationship of Kate and Clint in the back and forth, even the, are you casing? Like what’s going on? Just really fun. I’m loving the choices that the actors are making with these characters. This really feels like Avengers continued the movie, so I’m having a great time.
Alex: They really should call the next one that. Yeah.
Justin: Avengers, continued.
Justin: Colon: the movie. that’s a [inaudible 00:29:24] page, right Pete?
Justin: This movie really scratches the scrotum. Later!
Justin: Couple things to call out. They’re having a conversation in CVS. First off, we get a lot of wound cleaning tips here in this episode, which I thought was interesting.
Pete: Seriously though. I mean, that’s got to be important. You know what I mean?
Alex: Well, I think this was, I took that, particularly given there’s this exchange later on where Kate’s like, wait, you haven’t taught me anything yet. She just naturally assumes, great. I’m going to be a superhero. I met the superhero. We’re going to go into trading. I’m a new vigilant. I’m going to be part of the Avengers continued, colon: the movie, let’s go. And Clint isn’t like that at all. So I do think the wound cleaning and that basically being all he teaches her is a very calculated thing on his part to be like, I’m not giving you anything. I’m not encouraging you to have this path. This is a bad path. I’m a grumpy guy. You’ll end up as a grumpy girl. Let’s not do this.
Justin: Grumpier old Hawkeye.
Pete: I loved how she was like, come on, trick arrows? Show me something.
Justin: But I think the underlying lesson there is the real things you have to learn in super heroics are these like, how to fix a wound, how to pay attention to the news or the heat. It’s very much down to earth stuff. Listen to Pat Kiernan.
Alex: Definitely. It’s a superpower.
Pete: Pat Kiernan, coming home! Two in a row!
Justin: A big part of this episode is him being like, hey, you made the news twice. Hey, did you see this other news item? Look at all this news!
Alex: At least, also a Pat Kiernan during the day this time, which makes a little more sense.
Pete: I think the next step is going to be Pat versus Zacko. Who’s going to win?
Justin: Pat Kiernan.
Pete: All day.
Justin: Yeah. Let’s go into their papers! We are real New York heads. But let me also say, huge flaw. They go into a CVS in this episode, and they are walking past and there’s a bunch of wine for sale in CVS.
Pete: Yes! Not!
Justin: It doesn’t happen in New York city. Busted.
Alex: They film possibly elsewhere.
Justin: 100%, which I thought that was an interesting continuity error because I was like, you don’t have to show that. Show anything else in the CVS, or wherever you were.
Alex: I 100% agree, yes.
Justin: So that was a little weird. The only other thing I was going to call out is: so the guy who’s has the Ronan costume in the LARP-ing sequence. He gets it back from him. And then there’s this long thing where they have a conversation and he is like, Hey, my name’s Grills. And I was like, oh, we’re going to see this guy again. Why would we introduce him if he doesn’t come back? So I’m very curious if, to your point, Alex, it is weird to have a whole, LARP-ing’s crazy. Right? Sequence? The fact that now that we’ve established a LARP-er, I think they’re going to come back and end up being, fighting the track through mafia at some point.
Alex: That makes sense. I like that theory. All right. Before we wrap up here though, and we’ve touched on this a little bit already, let’s go to the vision board and talk about what we want to see going forward. Pete, what’s on your vision board for the next episode of Hawkeye?
Pete: More shenanigans. I’m having a great time. Things don’t need to get super important. You know, we can just have fun, get to know each other. Maybe have a pizza dog ep, you know what I mean?
Alex: Oh. Do you want there to be a pizza dog ep? I haven’t heard you say that.
Pete: I do. Really bad. I want pizza and I want a pizza dog ep.
Justin: I want pizza. I feel like we could just actually just pull clips from last episode of pizza and just lay him in here at the end.
Pete: You’re goddamn right.
Justin: Pete could just to take a powder here for a sec.
Pete: More New York one!
Justin: More New York one. Great. I-
Alex: To interrupt before you get there, Justin, I don’t know if you know this Pete, but New York one and pizza are both things you could get in real life, pretty much whatever you want.
Pete: It was a good point.
Justin: Wow. And that’s when he logged off. I think more of the two Hawkeyes together, messing things up and Hawkeye Clint, having more fun. Luke continued to loosen him up, but getting together and having this show be a real triumphant with Echo joining them as almost a team, feels very cool. And I could see that really working.
Alex: I am really excited to see Echo’s powers and how they work here. We got to see one copying, superhero super villain with taskmaster in the Black Widow movie. They obviously had their take there. Echo is honestly kind of similar in the comics, just in terms of how her powers are executed, so I’m curious to find what the riff is. That’ll be interesting to see, as well as like you said, Justin, how she interacts with Kate, how she interacts with Clint. Very excited to see her in the next episode. And folks, that is it. If you’d like to support our podcast, Patreon dot com, slash comic book club. Also, we do a live show every Tuesday night at 7:00 PM to Crowdcast and YouTube. Come hang out, we would love to chat with you about Hawkeye. iTunes, Android, Spotify, Stitcher, or the app of your choice to subscribe, follow, and listen to the show. At Marvel vision pod on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Comic book club live dot com for this podcast. And many more, be sure to come back next week where you’ve just scratched the scrotum.
Pete: Aw, come on.
Justin: That’s not really, let’s not let that live.
Pete: That’s not important.