MarvelVision: Hawkeye, Episode 1 – “Never Meet Your Heroes”

Hawkeye Episode 1

It’s the premiere of Marvel’s Hawkeye on Disney+, “Never Meet Your Heroes”, and we’re discussing whether it hit the spot or missed the target. In the opening episode, we meet Hailee Steinfeld’s Kate Bishop, find out why she’s such a big fan of Clint Barton, as well as her mother, potential Step-Dad, and much more. Meanwhile, Clint Barton is just trying to have a nice Christmas vacation in New York when his past catches up to him. From Easter eggs to theories for the future, we’re breaking down everything.


Full Episode Transcript:

Alex:                 Welcome to MarvelVision, a podcast about Marvel and the MCU. And right now, the premier of Hawkeye on Disney+. I’m Alex.

Justin:              I’m Justin.

Pete:                I’m Pete.

Alex:                 And first and foremost, since we’re going to be talking about the premier here, if you haven’t watched it over on Disney+, go check it out. We’re not going to talk about the second episode-

Justin:              Please do.

Alex:                 … even though they both dropped at the same time. We’re going to have a separate podcast episode for that, because we got to respect the process, you know what I’m talking about?

Justin:              Yeah. 100%. We’ll drop them at the same time just like Disney, because we’re a podcast+. We’re Marvel Vision+.

Alex:                 Podcast+. Marvel Vision+.

Pete:                Take it easy, there.

Alex:                 Here we go. We’re definitely going to do that.

Pete:                We’ll see what happens.

Alex:                 But let’s talk about this. First of all, so we get to see Hawkeye after the event of all of the Avengers movies, everything that’s happened through phase three. He is with his family. He is in the city for Christmas, but here’s the thing. This is not the Clinton Barton show. This is the Kate Bishop show folks.

Pete:                That’s right.

Alex:                 100%. So, we meet Kate Bishop, we follow her, we meet her mother, we meet her new potential stepdad, who’s Jacques Duquesne, aka The Swordsman, for those of you who know him by-

Justin:              Yeah, Duquesne, Duquesne.

Alex:                 Duquesne, excuse me.

Justin:              Yeah.

Pete:                Andy Dufresne.

Justin:              Andy Dufresne.

Alex:                 Dufresne.

Pete:                Right.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 And at the end, he kind of stands up and he looks in the rain and-

Justin:              Zihuatanejo. Zihuatanejo.

Alex:                 Yes. So, we meet him. We meet the rest of why she is a Hawkeye fan girl. And ultimately, she ends up in possession of the Ronan uniform, which plays an interesting role here, has a big fight. And by the end of the episode is the first time she actually comes face to face with Hawkeye when he says, “Who are you?” And that’s where we end things. But it really is, excuse me, I’m getting very choked.

Justin:              Are you getting choked up? Are you all right?

Alex:                 I had some hummus before the show.

Justin:              Oh. Nice.

Pete:                What a flex. What a flex.

Alex:                 Got a real hummus flex going on here.

Pete:                Excuse me, sorry. I was at a dinner party earlier.

Alex:                 Is the only place you have hummus is it a dinner party?

Pete:                I don’t know what fancy places you go to.

Justin:              Yes, I was at a seven course tasting, all hummus, [inaudible 00:02:21].

Alex:                 Point being though, to the point that Kate Bishop’s origin story is all the credits. We get to see her a lot more than we get to see Clint Barton, which I think is going to be a big surprise for people, certainly for me. But let’s talk broad strokes here before we get into it. Based on this first episode, did the first episode of Hawkeye hit the spot or miss the mark?

Justin:              Wow. Glad you are getting that in early.

Pete:                Wow. What’s up dad jokes?

Alex:                 I practiced it. I practiced it before we got on.

Justin:              Save that for the internet, my friend.

Pete:                Dad jokes-ing the crap out of this right out of the gate.

Alex:                 Yeah. It’s all about hummus. It’s all the hummus, man.

Justin:              While we’re talking about jokes, I expected this to be a little funnier.

Alex:                 What? This was hilarious. What are you talking about?

Justin:              Not to start with a negative.

Alex:                 The Rodgers Musical was hysterical! Go eff yourself. Come on.

Justin:              That was very funny. Hey, hey. Relax. I mean more the tone of it. I thought it was going to be a little bit more like, Shane Black, a little bit more knockabout. And we get a lot of that, but on the Kate Bishop side, which I thought was really cool. This is based on the famous Matt Fraction/David Aja run-

Pete:                Sure.

Alex:                 Yeah, bro.

Justin:              Of the comic, where with the Russian tracksuit mobsters, and Pizza Dog, all that.

Alex:                 Fucking Pizza Dog, bro. Come on.

Justin:              And that tone was, I feel like, way lighter than this. This had the sort of the Jeremy Renner-style darkness running underneath it. And I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I was just surprised. But what I am saying is that the comic book series that a lot of this seems to be based on, was about Clint getting punched in the face a lot. In this, it’s Kate who is getting like thrown around and beat up because she is a Hawkeye that’s just figuring it out. And I thought that was a really cool change. And I’m excited to see her being the focus, like you said.

Alex:                 Pete, what about you? What was your big takeaway from this premier episode here?

Pete:                All right. Well, Justin, why did you have to make it sound like you were shitting on it in the beginning and then do the compliment in the end? Just to say something nice about it if you feel good about it.

Justin:              I’m nuanced. I’m a nuanced… I did feel good about it. But we were talking about, I was making a point about the comedy of it. I mean, we saw the whole title sequence was taken right out of the David Aja art from the comic.

Pete:                Yeah, which was great. I thought this was just fun. I thought it was kind of exactly what you’re going to get. You’re going to get a Hawkeye straight from the movies. And they’re dealing with Hawkeye’s kind of world, but it’s the kind of other Hawkeye’s origin story. We saw Kate Bishop’s origin story. I think that’s a great way to go about it. Every one in a while, sprinkle Clint in, but I think this is an interesting way to do it. And also, a great way to widen the scope of the Marvel movies getting some other kind of people in there. So, I thought it was just a fun, laughing it itself. I thought it was a great setup for a first kind of episode, first issue, where you got that kind of cliffhanger, fun ending where they almost punch each other in the face, which was kind of the whole basis of the comic. I applauded it. I thought it was such a good, fun start.

Alex:                 Speaking as somebody who is not the hugest fan of Jeremy Renner or Hawkeye the character-

Justin:              What? Dude, what-

Alex:                 I know. I’m in the minority here.

Justin:              What are you on Amazon Prime channel? Did you order all the knives?

Alex:                 I ordered all of his beef jerky, I was on his app. I’m still on his app.

Justin:              Okay.

Alex:                 I’m still on his app, even though they deleted it. So, I don’t know how that’s working. We’re not getting a lot of new clients, to be honest.

Justin:              Yeah.

Pete:                Since there was so many things sold, they had to shut it down. It was just too much.

Alex:                 Mm-hmm (affirmative). Too popular, it was like-

Pete:                Amazon Prime was like, “Whoa,” yeah.

Alex:                 Yeah, every morning, I wake up at 5:00 AM-

Justin:              Yeah, that’s definitely [crosstalk 00:06:14].

Alex:                 … and I listen to his song that he released. I don’t remember what it’s called.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 But not-

Justin:              I know it goes (singing).

Alex:                 … the hugest fan of him. Yes.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 I think given that, I was a little trepidatious going on here, I do love the Matt Fraction/David Aja run. I think it’s absolutely fantastic.

Pete:                Yes.

Alex:                 And changed comics. So, very excited to see a lot of the elements here. But I was also, frankly, initially happy that there was so much focus on Hailee Steinfeld and Kate Bishop, because first of all, she’s great as Kate.

Justin:              She’s great, yeah.

Alex:                 Absolutely perfect.

Justin:              Great Kate.

Alex:                 Great Kate. And the story here, completely focusing on her, focusing on her mom, her new, probably, let’s be honest, it’s Tony Dalton, evil stepdad.

Pete:                Ugh, just fucking-

Justin:              I love him.

Pete:                What are you talking about? He’s so creepy. He’s a horrible father-figure. I mean, come on.

Alex:                 So, I mean, this is getting into specifics, but Tony Dalton was one of the longterm bad guys on Better Call Saul and he is phenomenal.

Justin:              If you haven’t watched that season of Better Call Saul, he is by far… on a show where every actor is unbelievable, he is the standout. He plays Lalo. And he is terrifying and funny at the same time. And I feel like he’s bringing that energy and I love to see it.

Alex:                 Yeah. Absolutely great.

Pete:                I would love [crosstalk 00:07:27].

Alex:                 So many great actors there. And then they would kind of, to your point, Justin, just to kind of jump into the episode here, whenever they’d go over to Clint I was like, “Oh man, what a bummer?.”

Justin:              Well, let me say-

Pete:                What are you talking about? It was sweet with the classic kind of setup of all things are going to go wrong. He’s having fun. They’re holding hands. Everybody says I love you. It’s like perfectly gonna-

Alex:                 But even with the musical…

Pete:                That was funny.

Alex:                 The musical was fun. It was fun to watch.

Pete:                I could do this all day turned in a song and then the smash, that was-

Alex:                 Great, so here’s-

Pete:                It was hysterical.

Alex:                 Can I nitpick a little bit about this?

Justin:              Yes, my man.

Alex:                 Because I was really looking forward to Rodgers Musical.

Pete:                Go eff yourself.

Alex:                 Very funny for the trailer. Very funny. Really enjoyed it. But the fact that it all takes place at the battle of New York… the way that they’ve treated the battle of New York in the MCU is its their 9/11, right?

Pete:                Whoa.

Justin:              Wow.

Pete:                Take it easy with that.

Alex:                 No, legitimately.

Pete:                Do not… let’s not evoke that at all.

Alex:                 People were like, “We’re traumatized, it ruined our city. It was this moment that changed the innocence of the world.”

Pete:                Not everybody on this podcast agrees with that statement.

Alex:                 And the [crosstalk 00:08:29] are like fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun, fun. Dance, dance.”

Justin:              Well, let me throw it… I think from a writing-

Pete:                What just happened?

Justin:              … standpoint, I don’t think anyone would ever say that out loud except for you, Alex. But I do think that is the way they treat it. They treat it like… I mean, not that anyone ever wrote a 9/11 musical.

Alex:                 They did. They did. Come From Away is the 9/11 musical. but-

Justin:              True, I mean, but that’s very-

Alex:                 … it’s not what they’re doing here. It’s not a big, showy Broadway musical. It’s a emotional-

Justin:              And that was a great musical.

Alex:                 Yeah.

Justin:              But it doesn’t take place in New York.

Alex:                 Sure.

Justin:              It’s away. But I guess what I was saying is the fact that we jump back to that moment here in the beginning, in the flashback, I was surprised. I was like, “Wow, we are still sort of rooted here.” No matter how far we get away from the first Avengers movie, everything sort of comes back to it. And it was crazy to me to have young Kate, after her building is blown open, she sees Hawkeye and thinks the impossible. “That guy’s very cool.”

Alex:                 That was my big impression from that opening scene.

Pete:                Oh, shut up.

Alex:                 I was like, “Oh my God. You are doing so much work here-“

Pete:                Come on! Oh my god.

Alex:                 … “to make us like Hawkeye and think he’s awesome. Jesus Christ.”

Pete:                Stop it. What the eff, man.

Alex:                 He is not cool. I’m sorry.

Pete:                The world is literally crumbling apart and then there’s somebody who’s fighting and making a difference. I thought that was a cool way to… you see someone swinging-

Alex:                 It worked. It worked. To your point being, it worked and it was fine. But I’m also with you Justin, in terms I was like…

Pete:                Unbelievable.

Alex:                 This is a lot. This is a lot to get there.

Justin:              It’s like if Bruce Wayne, when he fell into the cave and looked up, instead of seeing a bat, he saw a chipmunk. He’d be like, “I’m going to spend my life being that.”

Alex:                 Yeah.

Justin:              I want to say also, can I snip out the pause between when I said that before, and when Pete reacted? Because I’m going to hold on to that precious moment for the rest of my life.

Alex:                 I did like that though, as a motivator. Even if… to see Kate’s journey over there, to see her ultimately go to college, she plays this prank where she destroys the bell tower.

Pete:                That was hysterical.

Justin:              I love that scene.

Alex:                 Very [inaudible 00:10:44]. So good.

Pete:                The whole timing of that through the clock, and the whole mom-

Alex:                 Well, but also as we’re walking through this, this was sort of the point where my jaw sort of dropped a little bit that we went from this opening scene, set in the battle of New York back in 2012, all focused on Kate, where Clint’s in the background. Then we have an opening sequence with Kate, animated. And then I was like, “Okay, now we’re going to get Clint.” And then they went back to Kate. And I was like, “This is straight up the Kate Bishop show, featuring Clint Barton.” It’s surprising they went in that direction, but I’m glad they did.

Pete:                It’s a good choice, because Hawkeye is-

Alex:                 Sucks.

Pete:                Well, all right. But whatever. But they’re smart about it to be like, “Hey, this is going to be a lot of fun and she can do a lot of things that he can’t.” And I just like that whole sequence with kind of using the bow and arrow in different ways. Like, that tennis ball first hit was hysterical. That light dong and then-

Alex:                 Let me jump back to the Rogers the Musical.

Pete:                Wait, wait, wait, wait.

Alex:                 Okay, yes.

Pete:                No, that’s what I wanted to do, as well, because-

Alex:                 Oh, great. I’m sure we want to talk about the same thing.

Pete:                Yeah. Yeah.

Alex:                 Do you think there is a version of that number, where they talk about how much Hawkeye sucks? Because I really legitimately was like-

Pete:                What are you even talking about?

Alex:                 … they were like, Thor is handsome and strong, the Hulk is the strongest person in the world, Black Widow can do all these amazing things. The punchline of that had to have been, at some point-

Justin:              Yes.

Alex:                 … “And I have arrows.”

Justin:              Well, exactly.

Pete:                okay-

Justin:              Because that’s what I’m saying-

Alex:                 And then they veered away from that, which is weird.

Justin:              And that’s what I was saying, because the trailer for this show, before we watched the episode, was like, “Look at this fun romp. Hawkeye is under the gun the whole time and messing up a lot.” And then they do this big swing comedy musical number and I just thought for sure it was going to be, like you said, big upping everybody and then, “And Hawkeye”, pause, silence, pause. And then on with the musical or some kind of capital J joke there. And I felt like that’s what was missing in a lot of these scenes.

Pete:                No.

Justin:              Where there wasn’t that big hammer punchline that I thought we were going to get with this show.

Pete:                Okay. All right.

Justin:              And I think that that’s fine, because again, I really like the episode. It’s just, that was not my expectation coming in, was that we were going to get that comedy comedy.

Pete:                All right, enough of this shit storm, okay, between the two of you, okay? First off, I was laughing my ass off at-

Alex:                 Pete LePage. The number one Hawkeye fan.

Pete:                No, no. Shut the fuck up! You’ve talked enough.

Alex:                 Do you think Jeremy Renner listening to this?

Justin:              He actually [crosstalk 00:13:17].

Pete:                You guys have been talking too much.

Alex:                 [crosstalk 00:13:21] talking about you, Pete.

Pete:                You’re already talking. Listen.

Alex:                 Pete, I wanted to talk about the fact that it’s really wonderful-

Pete:                The thing is… the thing is that… I’m going to keep talking, because you’ve been-

Alex:                 … that you tried to start a Hawkeye fan club in New York and you couldn’t-

Pete:                … doing it… yeah, this is a great bit.

Alex:                 … because nobody wanted to be in it.

Pete:                This is fun. This is fun.

Alex:                 So you moved to Philadelphia.

Pete:                How we doing?

Alex:                 Go ahead.

Pete:                So, my point is, you guys were picking apart fucking stupid things about the musical, but it was hysterical. Hawkeye had to awkwardly sit through a musical about his life, where he is a joke and being made fun of. That’s enough of the punchline, you know what I mean? The thing of it was, him even seeing a joke of Black Widow was still too much for him. He had to run away from the awkwardness and the weirdness that is his life. It was well done. It was very funny. I don’t know what the fuck you guys are talking about.

Justin:              Well, and let me… I hear you, Pete. I do think both of our opinions can live in the same world, just like there are two Hawkeyes different, but still under the same name. Our opinions can live the same way. I think though, I think it was our misjudgment, and the trailer sort of pulling the wool over our eyes a little bit, in what it said. Because if we remember, Jeremy Renner and the Hawkeye character from all these movies, is sort of, melodramatic, is a bit mopey, is dealing with the drama and feeling it in a way. Like that scene when he’s like… this big joke’s going on in and in the middle of it, when we’re just about to get to the jokes about Hawkeye, it’s this very somber moment where he sees Black Widow.

Pete:                Right.

Justin:              And I think that’s his whole thing. The moment when he’s with his family and they’re eating dinner, whatever, it felt like it was going to be this fun scene. And he’s more like, “I love Christmas. I’m 100% going to spend Christmas with you. I’m going to live forever in this Christmas. And I love you the most. Good day.” I was like, “Okay, we get it. He’s not going to be going home for Christmas.”

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              But I mean, it was the most, McBaine, Hot Shots Part Deux moment-

Alex:                 I’m sorry, though. I’m sorry. I understand you’re a big-

Pete:                Hot Shots was fun. What the fuck are you talking about?

Alex:                 Justin’s being very political here, and I really appreciate it because we definitely want Pete to be on board with the discussion, but Hawkeye sucks.

Pete:                What the fuck?

Alex:                 They should be treating him like he sucks in this stuff. 100%.

Pete:                You’ve giving just a little bit of-

Alex:                 Because it’s not fun to watch.

Pete:                Oh my God.

Alex:                 Love the Kate Bishop stuff. Every time they cut to Hawkeye I was like, “Jeremy Renner gave them notes. He gave them notes on the scripts.” He was like, “No, Hawkeye’s a serious character. He’s a serious is character. And you need to treat him seriously. He’s been through a lot of trauma. He made a really hard decision on Vormir to stupidly let his friend die for no reason, okay? So we got to honor that.” And all of this stuff, I was like, “No, this is not…” Getting back to what you were saying earlier, Justin, he should be punched in the face. The fact that everybody in the world loves Hawkeye. Like, I get it from a realistic standpoint, but it’s not fun. And maybe the series will get there eventually where he is-

Justin:              I think it will.

Alex:                 … constantly punched in the face and the whole lethal weapon thing and he’s torn up and walking over glass and it’s like Diehard. And I do think we will get there, but right now I’m glad Clint Barton was not in this episode much.

Pete:                Oh my God.

Justin:              Hey, let’s move on to something we can agree on.

Alex:                 Sorry.

Pete:                The Chris Evans, like I could do this all day-

Alex:                 It sounds to me like maybe you don’t like Clint Barton, you just like the Rogers Musical.

Pete:                The casting of it was hysterical.

Alex:                 I agree.

Pete:                The fact that he had to sit through a musical was hysterical. The fact that the little kid-

Alex:                 And most importantly, can we talk about the fact that Brian d’Arcy James as Hailee Steinfeld’s father, great actor. Wonderful to see him. To me, that was the culmination of the episode, and for the rest of our podcast, I’m going to be talking about Brian d’Arcy James.

Pete:                The kid coming up to him outside, being like, “Dad, why was everybody singing?” Was hysterical. That was great. And the fact that he was like, “I don’t know. I don’t know what to tell you, kid.” That was very funny.

Alex:                 You know what that was? That was Midwestern snobbiness is what it was. Okay?

Pete:                Oh my God.

Alex:                 Get with the program. Musicals exist. They’ve been part of America for over a century at this point.

Justin:              Wow.

Pete:                Don’t put…

Alex:                 So, come on. Calm down, kid. He’s raising a bunch of little snobs.

Pete:                You got upset that maybe somebody was maybe saying something and now you’re all like, [inaudible 00:17:44]. What the fuck? Yeah, fucking calm down, Beaker.

Justin:              Wow.

Pete:                Nobody’s fucking saying Broadway isn’t fucking great. All right? All right, you fucking theater nerd? Take it the fuck down a notch, you know? People got different opinions.

Justin:              I’ve never heard a Muppet’s name used as such a burn. Such a slicing insult. You just got Ronan sworded right in the neck by that Beaker reference.

Alex:                 Pretty much. I could have watched that a couple more times by the way. Opening and closing that sword was the coolest thing I’ve ever seen.

Justin:              It’s oddly satisfying. But so let me throw out to you guys, all this Armand Duquesne-

Pete:                Oh, joke.

Justin:              … the mom stuff. First off, we meet Armand at the party, talking to Kate-

Pete:                Armand is someone who’s going to be trouble. I’m calling that now.

Justin:              let me throw out this. No, he said he’s Armand III and that kid’s Armand VII?

Pete:                Yes, the seventh is-

Justin:              How quickly are these people reproducing?

Alex:                 I don’t know. That was my question, too.

Justin:              That was very strange.

Alex:                 So, he’s like… I mean, maybe, I don’t know how this works. Maybe it’s a couple of people at different levels are Armands? No?

Justin:              That’s not how generations work, but okay. But there’s no-

Alex:                 He’s great-grandpa? Maybe he’s great-grandpa, so that’s the third, grandpa is the fourth, dad is the fifth.

Pete:                No, he’s just… somebody’s had a bunch of kids man.

Alex:                 Son is the… okay, no that doesn’t work. That doesn’t work.

Pete:                And you just named all the boys Armand.

Justin:              That’s not how generations work. It’s always a next generation. You can’t be like, “I had seven kids and named them all Armand and he’s the seventh one.”

Pete:                Well, that’s what he did.

Alex:                 I guess.

Pete:                That’s what he did.

Justin:              I thought that was so odd. It was such a sticky-

Pete:                Or that guy’s a vampire of some kind, or just some-

Justin:              And maybe think, are these clones?

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Let’s speculate about this a little bit, because we do… This seems to be the meat of what is going to be going on in this series, beyond what’s going on with the tracksuit mafia-

Pete:                Oh, so great.

Alex:                 Though I think it’s certainly fair to speculate that they’re connected in some way.

Pete:                I hope they have to fight them every episode.

Alex:                 The tracksuit mafia?

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 They great. They’re great.

Pete:                So much fun.

Alex:                 They stepped right off of the comic book page. Loved all the bros. That was fantastic.

Pete:                Yes, as soon as I saw the tracksuit, I got excited.

Alex:                 I don’t know his name. I know nobody else watches this show-

Justin:              That’s true, though.

Alex:                 Probably of you guys and probably nobody else. But the Snowpiercer TV show, the main tracksuit mafia guy is one of the engineers on the train there and plays essentially the same character. And he’s great. Just like brusk, angry, Russian man. It’s very cool. But we have this whole Duquesne thing going on and Jacque is marrying the mother. The mother is played by Vera Farmiga, who is great actress. And I feel like she has a lot more to do probably as the series goes on, because you don’t get Vera Farmiga to just be like, “I’m the mom. I’m getting married. Don’t do that, Kate.” There’s more stuff, I think, going on with her potentially. But what do you think? What’s your speculation at this point about what the conspiracy is? What’s going on here?

Justin:              Well, here’s what we got. We got dad, Brian d’Arcy James.

Pete:                [inaudible 00:20:52].

Justin:              They’re losing the penthouse, something’s up. He seemingly dies, but I speculate he did not. He’s gone. Where’s their money come from? When we get to the present day, we’ve got Kate’s mom. Lot of swords in the house. Jacques Duquesne.

Pete:                Lot of swords.

Justin:              Jacques Duquesne. Armand Duquesne. Swordsman. Famous villain in Marvel comics. Do we think that that makes Kate’s mom Madame Masque?

Pete:                Ooh. Take it easy.

Alex:                 Hmm. So this is potentially a big spoiler because this is where it goes in the comic books is Madame Masque ultimately ends up being her mom, right? Or?

Justin:              I don’t know where it landed. It was one of those things like, “Is she? She said she is. She’s a liar.” It bounced back and forth. I’m sure there’s an actual continuity answer, but it’s definitely something in the air in the comic book world.

Alex:                 Yeah. And I will say this also gets into that tricky territory where I believe they did Madame Masque on Agents of Shield, so.

Justin:              Hey, I got answer for you, Alex. Not tricky. That shit didn’t happen.

Pete:                Come on, man. The agents [crosstalk 00:22:03].

Alex:                 I don’t know. I think they’re still going to bounce around it a little bit. I don’t think they’re going to directly contradict, but it’s possible we see something where she is part of a resurgent Hydra or something like that. Potentially.

Justin:              Agents of ideas are in the trashcan is what we can call that show.

Pete:                Oh, come on, man.

Alex:                 But she’s great. Jacques is great. I really thought the relationship between Jacque and Armand was really interesting. I know Armand dies by the end of the episode, but-

Pete:                He should, too.

Alex:                 … it should very fascinating. And I hope we get some sort of flashbacks or something like that to unpack more of what’s going on there, because there feels like, just in their brief scenes together, such a rich history between the two of them.

Pete:                Yeah, like they’re in some kind of secret fucking club of some kind of villain assholes or something.

Alex:                 Who buy triceratops skulls.

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              Yeah. I think the Swordsman mantle is passed down from Duquesne to Duquesne.

Pete:                It was crazy that in that one building there was all these levels of bad guys doing different bad guy things that she was kind of just stumbling through.

Justin:              Very Hawkeye comic book. Let me also… And not to keep going back to this, but if Armand’s son is named Jack or Jacque, he should be named Armand.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 I don’t think that’s his son. I don’t think-

Justin:              Okay.

Alex:                 I think Jacque is his nephew, not his son.

Justin:              Hmm. Okay.

Pete:                Armand is just-

Alex:                 But you’re right. It’s still weird. The [inaudible 00:23:25]-

Justin:              I mean, so, and the rest of that scene on the Kate Bishop side, first off, always dress as a waiter when you’re going out to a nice night. Then you can jump back in the kitchen, poke around, eat some hors d’oeuvres.

Pete:                Black on black looks sharp, man. You look good. You can do anything.

Alex:                 It was a nice coincidence. That was really helpful for her that she happened to be dressed that way.

Justin:              100%.

Alex:                 Yes, yeah.

Justin:              And if you’re going to have a secret villain auction, get a better floor manager, because that guy Gary was letting anybody run willy nilly.

Pete:                Oh, come on, man. You can’t keep track of all the waitstaff. I mean, that is just-

Alex:                 That was a fun bit. That was a fun bit. I liked that quite a bit.

Pete:                “I’m Gary.”

Alex:                 Yes, “I’m Gary” was great. I also thought the way that sequence was filmed was very good, just because you have rows of shelves of wine bottles. So, it’d be very easy to get lost. But they were always keep track of Kate. They were keeping track of where the auction was, here the various waitstaff was, as well.

Pete:                That bottle fight was really great.

Justin:              Yeah, great fight choreography. And I also liked when the wall smashed open, and there was this sort of period of everyone was like, “What’s happening?” And I feel like so few action shows or action movies, usually someone’s kicking someone right through the explosion. It’s like, “That’s crazy.” It’s not like the wall opens and they’re jumping through it. It takes a second to deal with it.

Alex:                 Yeah, that was interesting, though.

Justin:              I thought that was cool.

Alex:                 So, second that.

Pete:                Yeah. Yeah. It was very interesting. And then they finally came through it. You don’t usually…

Alex:                 Now, the Tracksuit Mafia in this episode is looking for a watch that is being sold at the auction. What’s the deal with the watch? What’s your speculation here?

Justin:              From the wreckage of Avengers Tower, I believe, right?

Alex:                 Potentially. I mean, the Ronan outfit is. I don’t know that the triceratops skull is, necessarily.

Pete:                Well, but I think it’s just one of those really special edition, collector’s items, really expensive, well-made watches, that if you have it, you don’t want to lose it.

Justin:              Let me throw this out to you. I speculate it’s a way of accessing Iron Man armor. And that’s why they want it.

Pete:                Whoa.

Justin:              Because I believe when it was on the ground when that one dude was trying… he was like, “I found the watch.” I think it had on it, “Avengers compound.” A little tag. So, maybe someone can correct if I’m making that up. But so if that’s true, I feel like it’s a Tony Stark watch that may be able to access on of his armors.

Alex:                 Let me throw something else at you. I think the watch is unimportant. I think it’s a MacGuffin, similar to the watch.. it’s the watch from Pulp Fiction, right? Where they’re telling the whole story about the watch?

Justin:              The watch in the butt?

Alex:                 The gold… yeah, the watch in the butt.

Pete:                Oh, that watch, yeah.

Alex:                 Yeah, that watch.

Justin:              “Up his ass.”

Alex:                 But I think it’s a distraction so that Jacques can grab Ronan’s sword.

Justin:              “You be damned.”

Alex:                 Yeah. That’s my thought there.

Justin:              Wow.

Alex:                 I think because he seems to go right for the sword, grab it, put it in his pocket. So, I think he was like-

Justin:              Well, he closed in first.

Alex:                 From whatever he did [crosstalk 00:26:25]

Justin:              [crosstalk 00:26:25] the cool clothes and-

Alex:                 Had to do the cool clothes thing, very cool.

Justin:              That could me.

Alex:                 Yeah, potentially.

Pete:                I think it’s just one of those watches that also like a calculator. So it’s super useful.

Alex:                 Maybe it’s a Mickey Mouse watch and they’re Disney, right? Pretty cool.

Pete:                Huh? Disney-

Alex:                 Disney+.

Pete:                You got to kind of protect the brand.

Alex:                 I mean, I know we’re raising prices by a dollar, but we have a lot of good content on the way.

Justin:              Oh no, are they really?

Pete:                Wow.

Justin:              Wait are you talking about MarvelVision+?

Alex:                 Yeah, MarvelVision+, we’re charging a dollar extra for this podcast than we have previously.

Pete:                Oh man, we shouldn’t do that.

Justin:              A dollar extra of zero.

Alex:                 Yes.

Pete:                Oh, shit, bro.

Justin:              Couple other things I wanted to say. You know it’s a New York repping show when you got Pat Kiernan from NY1 Traffic.

Pete:                NY1 baby, come on. Oh, yeah.

Alex:                 I got a quibble again about that.

Justin:              Maybe it was Pat’s watch.

Alex:                 I got a quibble. There’s a huge gaffe.

Justin:              He’s on at night.

Alex:                 He’s on at night.

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              I know.

Alex:                 Pat Kiernan is not on at night, he’s on in the morning.

Justin:              Well, in this New York, he is.

Alex:                 Oh, okay. Pat Kiernan in the Multiverse of Madness?

Pete:                That’s right.

Justin:              It’s probably Pat’s watch. That’s probably… Pat was like, “Yo, can you get me that watch, guys?”

Alex:                 No, he’s the big bad guy of the series. That would be very cool.

Pete:                Oh my God, no.

Alex:                 That would be the coolest.

Justin:              The only frontier left for people, because I think Pat Kiernan appears in a lot of movies as a real New York rep. I think when we get Sandy Kenyon from NY1 it’s going to be… and if you’re outside of New York, you don’t know what I’m talking about. But this guy does movie reviews on Taxi Cab TV. I’ve heard that guy say nonsense for years when I’m drunkenly getting into a cab. “I’m Sandy Kenyon and this is Movie Minute.”

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 “And I’m in the Hawkeye series right now, and I’m reviewing it.” Well.

Justin:              “Sandy, you’re playing a character. You’re not you.”

Alex:                 “Oh, all right. Taxi TV.”

Pete:                We can all agree that Pizza Dog was great, though, right?

Alex:                 I mean, come on.

Justin:              Yes, something we can all agree on.

Alex:                 Now, do you think that dog had one eye originally? Or did they poke out a dog’s eye?

Pete:                They probably poked it out.

Justin:              Yeah. That’s what they would have done.

Alex:                 Got to do it for the part.

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              They would have done… oh, the dog poked his own eye out?

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 I do have a question about why she was going after the dog at the end there. That wasn’t totally clear to me.

Pete:                Yeah, that was weird.

Justin:              It was a little weird.

Pete:                Also only one slice of pizza? I mean, come on that dog, you don’t know the last time that dog ate.

Alex:                 Mark my words-

Pete:                Like only one slice?

Justin:              That dog’s going to eat more pizza by the end of this series. And let me also just say, I wish that the Pizza Dog told more jokes. Is that fair? A fair thing for me to say, Pete?

Pete:                Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

Alex:                 Yeah. What would be fantastic actually is if Pizza Dog turned to the camera every once in a while and said, “Well, that just happened.”

Pete:                Oh boy. Wow.

Justin:              Ooh, that’s good. That’s that is my favorite punchline, yes.

Alex:                 That’s one of my favorite jokes.

Justin:              Yes, exactly.

Alex:                 I really like when they do that. But yes, all that aside, great to see Lucky the Pizza Dog, really perfect looking dog, very fun, even though I’m not 100% sure why Kate chased after him. I’m still glad she did. I think it was mostly to show that footage in the hotel room later on.

Pete:                That was a great line, though, when Hawkeye’s kid was like, “Oh cool, that ninja saved a dog.” That was a fun line.

Alex:                 It is really interesting, because this is something that wasn’t established in the MCU before, but it’s really interesting that everybody knows who Ronan is, but they don’t know that Ronan is Hawkeye.

Pete:                Right. Yes.

Alex:                 That was kind of a fascinating little in-universe detail, which makes sense, I guess. Like, if there was a dude dressed in a ninja suit who was going around and constantly murdering criminals, he’d be as well known as the Punisher, right? But that never occurred to me while watching Endgame.

Pete:                Don’t come for me, man. Don’t fucking come at me.

Justin:              Well, and I also liked, that actually it was sort of a little plot device that I thought was cool. Hawkeye seeing her having put on the Ronan costume is what drives him to go get her. As opposed to him, seeing someone dressed as Hawkeye shooting an arrow and being like, “I better track that person down.” That was better-

Alex:                 Well, because it’s something he is ashamed of, he feels bad about… it’s something that was the darkest point in his life when his entire family was dead and gone. It’s reminding of that. So even though I have been pretty down on morse Hawkeye in this series, and just in general, I do think, like you’re saying, Justin, as a motivator for him, that’s a smart move and it certainly works well. Yeah. What else do we need to talk about with the series? Any other moments that jumped out to you guys as you were watching?

Pete:                I really like the mom bit in the beginning where she’s like, “Moms are fun too.” And does that fun food-flip. I thought that was a great kind of moment.

Alex:                 Definitely a big hint that she has more going on.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Than just being a friendly mom.

Justin:              Even if she’s not Madame Masque, I think she’s going to be another villain. The Swordsman is definitely a sort of Hydra adjacent, not street level villain, not super-super villain, but just someone who has schemes.

Alex:                 Well, he was also an Avenger for a while, but in the comic book, like most villains, bounced back and forth. But to your point, yes, I think I could see this series indicating that he is the main villain when it actually is her mom.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 Potentially.

Justin:              Which is fun. I’m excited for that. I mean, I guess the last thing that is super important to point out is that monogrammed butterscotches is the ultimate old dude flex.

Pete:                I mean, you can talk about eating hummus, but then you can monogram butterscotch. You know what I mean?

Alex:                 It’s weird that he didn’t have almonds because that would’ve been much funnier, right? Armand’s almonds?

Pete:                Oh, come on.

Justin:              Oh my God.

Pete:                Come on, man.

Justin:              Yo, Beaker, go to bed.

Alex:                 Great. Well, there’s a lot more coming up on the series that I’m very excited to check out before we wrap up here though, let’s turn it over to our vision board where we look at what we think is coming up on the next episode or what we want to see. So Pete, what do you want to see happen in the next episode? Other than going back for a second viewing of Rogers the Musical?

Pete:                I really think episode two would be a really cool move to go all silent, all Pizza Dog point of view, or maybe got to kind of build that up, the love of Pizza Dog more, but man, I cannot wait for that to happen and I really hope they go for it. Yeah. I’m just excited for more of the same.

Justin:              My prediction on the Pizza Dog comic issue that I think Pete’s referencing there, I bet they’ll have a fight sequence where we see the whole thing from Pizza Dog’s POV.

Pete:                Ooh, yeah.

Justin:              Which would be very fun. Especially Kate’s apartment is very much like the Hawkeye apartment building.

Alex:                 Yeah, yeah. That’s going to be a key place.

Pete:                Right.

Justin:              That’s going to be the home of a great fight sequence.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Yeah. Right out of the comics. That was so cool to see. The other thing that we didn’t mention, and I know we’re in the middle of the vision board, but, they’re very subtly working on the fact that Hawkeye has a hearing aid now, which is something that has been part of his character in the comics for decades that they haven’t done in the movies. I’m very interested to see how they work on that, particularly given Lauren Ridloff’s character in Eternals, that was so much positive representation, in terms of the deaf community. I’m excited to see what they do here. They’re going to have, I mean, this is a spoiler for the series, but this is already out there… Echo the character is going to be part of the series as well. So we’re going to see her.

Pete:                Oh. Oh, shit.

Alex:                 So certainly in terms of deaf representation and hearing-impaired representation, that’s going to be something big going forward. So I’m excited to see how that pans out, but the other thing on my vision board, conversely, from everything that I said this episode, I kind of want to see more Clint. I want to see whether it is going to be more evenhanded going forward and we’re going to have more half and half. Would be totally fine if this continues to be the Kate Bishop show for six episodes. But ultimately, I think if you’re going to do it right, you really… now that they are together, what is it like when they’re together? You know?

Justin:              I agree. And I want to see, I think the pathway to make Clint more fun is to make him increasingly frustrated and that way he doesn’t have time to be mopey. And so I think that’s what they’re going to do. That’s my prediction/hope, is that through him not being able to go home for Christmas, getting dragged into a mystery/crime situation that he doesn’t want to be a part of, he’s going to then start to open up a little bit and have a little bit more fun.

Alex:                 Well, and the other thing there is pretty much, I think, every Disney+ series so far has been about these characters dealing with their trauma from the entire last slate of movies. We saw that with WandaVision, we saw that with Captain America and the Winter Solider. We saw that with Loki, as well.

Pete:                It’s important, man. You got to deal with it.

Alex:                 Well, yeah, you do need to deal with it. And I think, to your point, Justin, that’s probably what they’re doing here is he’s got Ronan, he’s got Black Widow’s death. He lost his entire family. He doesn’t feel like the strongest or most powerful Avenger. So, if potentially working with Kate and lifting her up in some way to be the hero that we know she can be-

Pete:                You think-

Alex:                 … gets him past all those things, that’s going to be a lot of fun to watch.

Pete:                … the last episode is going to be him singing, I Can Do This All Day? Like, he’s finally like-

Alex:                 Oh, man.

Justin:              It’ll be the full musical episode.

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              Well, and let me say on that point real quick, before we go, it’s interesting to me that Marvel’s big.. the MCU hit so hard and so well by really opening up and being like, “We’re going to hit this genre with this movie. Captain America’s going to be a war movie classic. We’re going to go over here with these other movies into different genres and really lean into a variety.” And then with the TV shows, it does feel like they’re sort of, maybe not on purpose, but there’s a lot of repeated sort of arcs and narrative, emotional arcs for them, where they are like coming out of their trauma and healing themselves a little bit. And I do think we’re due for some variety on that.

Alex:                 Yep. All right, folks, if you’d like to support our podcast and, of course, subscribe to MarvelVision+, Also we do a live show every Tuesday night at 7:00 PM to Crowdcast and YouTube. Come hang out. We would love to chat with you about Hawkeye. iTunes, Android, Spotify, Stitcher, or the app of your choice to subscribe, listen, and follow the show at MarvelVision Pod on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. for this podcast and many more until next time, [inaudible 00:37:16].

Justin:              Beaker out.

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