Doom Patrol S1E4 Cult Patrol

The Doom Room: “Cult Patrol”

podcasts The Doom Room

Doom Patrol kicks off its first real two-parter with Season 1, Episode 4 “Cult Patrol”, as the team tackles the Cult of the Unwritten Book. Thanks to the introduction of Willoughby Kipling, the residents of Doom Manor get their first taste of magic, and a singing blue horse. Meanwhile, Jane is not happy with Cliff, Rita finally steps up, and we learn some surprising info about Larry. Plus: we really go in on Hobbits.

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Full Episode Transcript

Alex:                 Straight from your mama’s womb, it’s The Doom Room.

Pete:                Oh, my God.

Alex:                 I’m doomed. I’m Alex.

Pete:                Oh, my God.

Justin:              Pick up the groom, because you’re in The Doom Room. I’m Justin, and I’m doomed.

Pete:                I’m Pete. What’s up?

Alex:                 And we’re going to be talking about season one, episode four of Doom Patrol titled Cult Patrol. Now, brief bit of recap here in case it’s been a while since you watched the episode and you need to remember. This one introduces discount Constantine in the form of Mark Sheppard’s Willoughby Kipling, who shows up, introduces the whole Doom Patrol to the concept of the Cult of the Unwritten Book.

Alex:                 They get attacked by it while trying to protect that unwritten book, who is a dude named Elliot. And ultimately things get worse before they don’t get better by the end of the episode, as Jane and Cliff are prisoners of the Cult of the Unwritten Book. The Decreator has been released, a big eyeball in the sky, and everybody’s in a real bad place at the end of this episode.

Alex:                 The big thing about this one is we’re four episodes in, and this is the first one, I think… I mean, we have the first episode had a big cliffhanger, but this really feels like the first part one of two episode, right?

Justin:              Yeah. Big.

Pete:                Cliffhanger.

Alex:                 [crosstalk 00:01:24].

Justin:              Cliff Steele. Cliff Steele hanger.

Pete:                Yeah, there we go. There we go.

Alex:                 That’s pretty good. Justin, we’ll check in with you first, given this is a big deal for you experiencing a part-

Pete:                Yeah’s it’s a big deal for you.

Alex:                 … Part one of two-

Justin:              It’s a huge deal for me.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 … A part one of two for the first time on the show, which is real game changer. How you feeling? You okay?

Pete:                Yeah, how you doing?

Justin:              It’s crazy to stop in the middle, and then wait and have it… I don’t know the answers.

Alex:                 Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Pete:                Mm.

Justin:              You know?

Alex:                 Yeah.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Just finish the story, guys. You know? You’re like halfway through the story.

Justin:              [crosstalk 00:01:57]-

Alex:                 This is a new thing for TV. It was an innovation for TV. It’s the first ever two-part episode.

Justin:              Listen, I don’t know if this is why they did it, but it does make me want to come back for more.

Alex:                 Really? That’s really interesting.

Pete:                Well, it looks like they’re doing their job.

Justin:              I want to find out-

Alex:                 I feel like more shows should try this.

Justin:              I wanna find out what happens.

Pete:                Oh, man.

Justin:              I feel like a lot of people walk away from this and they’re like, “All right. I’m satisfied. Eyeball.” But see me, I’m just like, “Wait, wait guys. Let’s dig a little deeper and watch part two.”

Pete:                What else is going to happen?

Alex:                 It’s like me and dinner. I walk away from dinner, I’m like, “No, I’m good.”

Pete:                Wow.

Justin:              Well, that actually tracks. That’s good. What are you missing, a second dinner?

Pete:                I can’t walk away from dinner. Yeah.

Justin:              What are you? A prince?

Pete:                You sound like Lord of the Rings. Do they know about second breakfast?

Alex:                 Yeah. How many meals do you hobbits have again?

Pete:                A lot.

Alex:                 A lot?

Justin:              That’s a bad habit.

Pete:                They’re living the dream.

Alex:                 Yeah, I mean-

Justin:              Having two breakfasts is a bad habit. Let me just throw out real quick-

Pete:                Or the best, you know?

Alex:                 Best what, Pete?

Pete:                The best habit.

Justin:              Habit. I got to say, this show is just… it gets better every episode. I really, really am enjoying this. Again, I wish someone had told us sooner that this show is worth watching and podcasting about. So let me just lay that up, but let me also say, is this the same Elliot as the Elliot in ET?

Pete:                Yes. Elliot.

Alex:                 I thought maybe it was the same Elliot as my son’s middle name, but it’s spelled differently. So probably not.

Pete:                Wow. Well did-

Justin:              Your child is a book also, right?

Pete:                Son flexing.

Alex:                 Yeah. Well that’s how we raised him.

Justin:              Son flex.

Alex:                 I’m expecting that any time now, my wife is going to kill me.

Justin:              I mean, that is true, Alex but [crosstalk 00:03:43]. For unrelated reasons. There’s no cult.

Alex:                 I keep demanding second dinner. And she’s like, “We don’t have any more dinners. Please stop eating.”

Pete:                Oh my God.

Alex:                 This is my big question about the hobbits. They keep having these nonstop meals, like just don’t call them different meals. You’re just snacking all day. That’s all you’re doing.

Pete:                Oh. Wow.

Justin:              Interesting. But then what do you invite… If you invite someone over for just snack, then when do they come over?

Alex:                 Come over for food. I don’t know. Give them a time, say, “Hey, we’re hobbits. We never stop eating. You know that. We’re friends. Come over, eat food. Whatever food we have out. It’s probably that hardtack bread.”

Justin:              I invite you over for snack, and you show up at 9:00 AM with a bottle of red wine? It’s confusing.

Alex:                 Absolutely. I mean, would you turn me away?

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              No. At breakfast in my house, we drink a warm vodka.

Alex:                 With eggs floating in it, right? Infused?

Justin:              Exactly. We’re health nuts.

Alex:                 So let’s talk about Elliot though, since you did bring him up. This is… Yes, Pete.

Pete:                I [crosstalk 00:04:42].

Alex:                 Do you want to go back to the eggy vodka?

Pete:                I wanted to back up from the [crosstalk 00:04:45]. I want to back up the truck a little bit. What’s fun is they’re having kind of fun with the titles here. You know what I mean? And you know, it’s a simple thing, but it’s just enjoyable. The fact that this show’s a lot of fun, even the title is a little out of fun.

Alex:                 Are you talking about the recap?

Pete:                No. I’m talking about the-

Justin:              Cult Patrol.

Pete:                Yeah. They have Cult Patrol, the next one… or a couple more is like Paw Patrol. There’s… You know, they’re just kind of having some fun. Like even the titles are fun. But I know we had talked a lot about… was it Hammibal Lectur? Yeah. I mean this, it went right from the DC flip into Hammibal Lectur, so that… I mean, [crosstalk 00:05:32].

Alex:                 That was last episode.

Justin:              That was last episode.

Pete:                Yeah, but it was in the recap. So they hit us again with it, you know? The previously on.

Alex:                 That’s great. Can I tell you what I actually loved about this episode, is the HBO max launch page for it. It’s mostly purple.

Pete:                Get out of here. Get out of here. [crosstalk 00:05:54] This is anti podcasting. This is a personal attack.

Alex:                 Pete, what did you think about the apple TV interface where I had to click over to HBO max? I recently had to delete the app because it took me out of it, and then I reinstalled the app. Should I keep going with this story?

Pete:                Yeah, please do. I’m sorry.

Alex:                 Sorry. I’ve had a lot of vodka this morning.

Pete:                I’m sorry to just point out that there’s a lot of layers to fun to the show, okay? So I’m sorry.

Alex:                 Thank you for apologizing.

Justin:              Thank you for the apology.

Alex:                 Thank you.

Justin:              Elliot, we start with this fun cult birthday montage. This character is fun, and sad. Fits right in with just the vibe of all these characters who are like, “My life sucks, but here I am still living it.”

Alex:                 Yeah, I really like this intro to just the way that it’s filmed. It’s not a subtle way, but the way that they think keep flipping through these different Elliots to give us the passage of time works really nicely. And it shows how he has lived his entire life going right up to that shocking moment where the wife immediately slits the dad’s throat.

Pete:                Well, she’s going to get a knife. I mean, this is not the time to turn your back on your wife, if that’s… That’s just not smart.

Alex:                 I guess the bigger question is he probably had a lot of other times to tell him when she was somewhere else, right?

Pete:                Exactly.

Alex:                 [crosstalk 00:07:13].

Justin:              She seems like she sticks pretty close to the cakes and Elliot in general. Real helicopter, am I right?

Pete:                Oh boy.

Alex:                 But I do like Elliot. I do like the actor. I think his interactions with…

Pete:                I don’t know. He seems a little depressing, you know what I mean?

Alex:                 Yes. That’s the point. His interactions with Larry I thought were really nice in particular.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Fan of him. I hope he survives past this episode. That’s my big thing.

Pete:                Oh, that’s nice to you.

Justin:              Well, and before I knew that this was going to be this innovative idea of a to be continued episode, I was like, “Oh, this kid’s just going to get killed at the end of this episode.” I thought, for sure. I thought it was going to be a quick turnaround, Kip was going to come through and just end it. But I really like that the Elliot character is also bringing out better qualities in Rita and Larry. It’s like we talked about last episode, these characters seem incapable of dealing with their own issues. But when they’re talking about someone else, they confront their issues, or they realize that they have the same issues that Elliot has, in a way.

Alex:                 Well, and this is very much jumping ahead, but while we’re talking about Elliot’s influence on Rita in particular, that’s… There’s that amazing moment where to protect Elliot, Rita uses her powers correctly for the first time.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Not even realizing it. She just does it on instinct.

Justin:              Well, I think correctly is an interesting word choice there because I think she’s like, “Whoa, I can do that?” That’s much cooler than being a goop. So yeah.

Alex:                 Well, and I think that comes down to… It’s such a smart moment in terms of letting us know that Rita does have this better nature to herself. When she’s focusing on herself, when she’s focusing internally, she starts to literally melt down. She turns into a puddle. She turns into a blob. But when she’s being selfless, when she’s fighting for Elliot, she is able to control her movements, and be in total control of her body. It’s interesting to extrapolate that also on what that potentially means for her as an actress. You know? We don’t really have a sense of like… We know she is a popular actress, but we don’t know if she’s a good actress.

Pete:                Oh, come on, man.

Justin:              Let me just say, I don’t think she’s classically trained. As a classically trainer, we can always smell [crosstalk 00:09:31].

Pete:                Shots fired. Let’s back up off of Rita please. Okay?

Justin:              [crosstalk 00:09:36] her theatrical… Are you offended by her lack of theatrical training?

Pete:                No, I’m offended that you guys will come at her acting, all right? Because the stuff that we’ve seen on screen has been marvelous. Especially for the time period, okay? So why don’t we back up off that? I want to talk about the fact that like-

Alex:                 So just to check, Rita’s acting, okay for the time period. Larry Trainor being uncomfortable about coming out to his family, not okay for the time period.

Pete:                Oh my god. You are… That’s not my problem with Trainor, okay? It’s that I want him to be honest with the people who rely and love him. Okay?

Justin:              Yeah.

Pete:                So…

Justin:              That’s fair.

Alex:                 Did you know that trainers are actually what they call sneakers in England?

Justin:              Hmm.

Pete:                Wow. That’s a fun fact to [crosstalk 00:10:22].

Alex:                 Makes you think. Makes you think.

Pete:                It doesn’t make you think. Because we didn’t find him like, next to another person who looks exactly, like, maybe in the closet somewhere. He was on the beams. You don’t put shoes up there.

Alex:                 Well think about it this way, but you have Larry Trainor. Again, trainers are sneakers in England, and then…

Justin:              Let’s just call him Larry Sneaker.

Alex:                 Larry Sneakers. And then the negative spirit is kind of sneaking around a little bit, like a sneaker.

Pete:                Oh wow.

Alex:                 So there you go.

Pete:                All right.

Alex:                 I think I properly justified bringing them up.

Pete:                Nope. Nope. I really, really liked Rita’s talk to him when he was on the ledge. Like, it was this hysterical. [inaudible 00:11:04] Yeah. It was this hysterical thing of like, “Well, you’re only on the second floor, so, you know.” And he’s like, “Ah, I can’t even get this right.” It was like… She wasn’t overbearing, she wasn’t like, “Get away from there.” You know? It was this kind of calm… It was really nice to see her have this kind of honest moment with this character. And really she started to kind of grow from there as a person. So it was really well done. I was just in this silly, completely insane, over the top episode, there was some really emotional moments.

Justin:              Well, I think you’re right there, Pete, because it was… When she first saw Elliot there, she came over and tried her usual spiel of just like, “I’m going to do this, then I’m going to have a Manhattan and go to sleep.” And he was like, “Doesn’t work. That’s not helping me.” And so then she has to go deeper, really reveal herself to him, and ends up on this great line, “The world is a beautiful, horrible place. It’s spectacular.” Which was awesome. And it really like was introspective. And from that, I think we see… you can draw a line to her using her powers in a more interesting way.

Alex:                 Why do you think she bonds with Elliot in particular? Other than the fact that obviously the script demands that in terms of everybody moving forward as characters. What is it about Elliot in particular that she bonds with? Is it the fact that he’s a kid? Is it the fact that he’s about to attempt suicide? Is that something potentially in her past?

Pete:                He’s at rock bottom where I think she is, or has been. You know what I mean? She’s kind of like… knows kind of a little bit of his head space, and I think that’s why she’s able to connect with him so easily.

Justin:              Well, and he’s vulnerable. And so she can come in, there’s an opening there. All the other characters in the show have their, you know… are calloused up, and just can’t be reached and are dealing with their own things. And then you got to look at… Rita’s been dealing with Cyborg just leaving her out purposefully. Leaving her out.

Pete:                Yeah. Dude, that was cold as ice.

Justin:              On her case for the past two episodes, and really making her feel bad because of her issues, which then make her issues worse. So I think with Elliot, she saw a chance to give what she in turn needs to him.

Alex:                 Do you think it’s perhaps because he has writing all over himself, and she recognizes scripts?

Pete:                A good script when she sees one?

Alex:                 Yeah, she sees a good script, and she’s like, “I know what that is.”

Pete:                You’re a horrible person.

Justin:              She’s trying to develop Elliot into a multi-part series.

Alex:                 Don’t jump out a second story window, I want to option you.

Justin:              I just hope that Elliot has a to be continued on his body somewhere. Like if there’s a episode ends on his right butt cheek, and on his left is the second episode [crosstalk 00:13:49].

Pete:                He’s got to make sure he gets points on the back end, otherwise he’s not going to, you know [crosstalk 00:13:52].

Justin:              You mean the ass by back end, right?

Pete:                No, I don’t.

Alex:                 Actually, in England, when they’re doing part one and part two of a script, they call it cheekin, because you’re jumping from the left cheek, the first episode, to the right cheek, the second episode.

Pete:                I really wish you didn’t do that.

Alex:                 Can we jump back and talk about discount Constantine though? Who, mind you, I love I. Mark Sheppard, great actor. Always fun when he shows up on a show. He’s always great at everything. But I do remember my reaction when he showed up here, because they have… I’m completely blanking on his name, but the guy who plays Constantine over on the Arrowverse shows.

Pete:                Amazing. He’s great at Constantine.

Alex:                 He’s great too. And they had introduced him, and this felt like… Oh, even, even in the comics, I think this character is like, “Yeah, we couldn’t get Constantine so we created another Constantine.” Pretty much, right?

Justin:              Yeah.

Pete:                Sometimes you need, you know… If somebody’s busy, you need a B level. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Alex:                 Yeah.

Justin:              Yeah. And it is a weird choice, because… I guess this was a time where it was like, “Well, let’s not introduce the character.” I feel like so many other shows now are like, “Yeah, let’s just do our version of the character and who cares? We’ll clean it up later. We’ll bring in some fans maybe.” But, to your point, I really like this character. He is… The fact that he smokes just like Constantine, it’s right over the plate.

Pete:                Drinks a lot more than Constantine does.

Justin:              I wouldn’t say more, but…

Alex:                 Yeah. He even has a… I mean, it’s a different color trench coat, but he even has a trench coat like Constantine. So it’s basic-

Pete:                Well if you’re going to do magic, you kind of need a trench coat, so…

Alex:                 Oh, to hide all the spells?

Pete:                Yeah, a lot of different reasons. Yeah.

Alex:                 This is also a fun act. Anytime you see somebody with a trench coat that they’re holding still, holding around them, they’re definitely a magician.

Pete:                Yep.

Justin:              Yep.

Alex:                 Ask them what tricks they’re hiding.

Pete:                Or it’s a bunch of-

Justin:              And they’ll show you.

Pete:                … Smaller people stacked on top of each other. You got to be careful for that.

Alex:                 Yeah.

Justin:              Yeah. Nice of you… I’m glad you said people.

Pete:                Yep.

Alex:                 You used to work in a movie theater, right Pete?

Pete:                Yeah. Oh yeah. You got to keep your eye out, man.

Justin:              And you for a while you were the middle kid in a secret trench coat stack, right?

Pete:                Yeah. Yeah. [crosstalk 00:16:00].

Pete:                It’s a tough gig. Yeah.

Alex:                 Yeah. What you think’s harder, being the middle kid in the trench coat stack or the middle of a human centipede? Or is it basically the same thing, Pete?

Justin:              I think it’s a gateway.

Pete:                It’s not the same thing, and stop being gross.

Alex:                 Once you get tired of the trench coat stack, you’re like, “Well, got to take it up a level.”

Pete:                Nope.

Justin:              Exactly. Well, when people… As Pete said, when people stack themselves underneath the trench coat, they are stacking butt to mouth, I believe, it how [inaudible 00:16:28].

Alex:                 How else are you all going to eat the popcorn?

Pete:                Stop it. You just pass the popcorn down to the next person. Stop being gross.

Alex:                 No, then you see the heads. Then you see the heads and get kicked out of the movie theater. Come on.

Justin:              Well, hen I’m in a movie theater and I say, “Pass the popcorn,” I expect someone to digest it, and then poop it out.

Pete:                Please stop. Please.

Alex:                 So anyway, that’s what’s going on with Willoughby Kipling in this episode.

Justin:              There is one thing I wanted say. Cliff calls him a drunk David Copperfield. And if you’re not familiar with David Copperfield, he’s a magician. And I don’t know if I’ve ever told this story…

Alex:                 Hold on. I need to get this back on track.

Pete:                Wow.

Justin:              I’ve never…

Pete:                Alex started laughing first, and I was like, “I’m not sure what’s happening yet,” but now I see.

Justin:              But when I was a child, David Copperfield made me disappear.

Alex:                 Wow.

Pete:                Great.

Justin:              Isn’t that a shocking story? I can’t believe you guys all [inaudible 00:17:26] more, in a way…

Alex:                 Well we’ve heard part one of the story. [crosstalk 00:17:31].

Justin:              I think I’ve only been telling part one over and over again for many years.

Alex:                 Man. And that’s how you ended up here, right?

Justin:              Exactly. He made me reappear in this podcast. Yes.

Alex:                 But yeah, I do like this character.

Justin:              I’m like the [inaudible 00:17:44] being of this podcast.

Alex:                 Yeah. I do like this character. I do like that he brings another weird element into the show. We haven’t really dealt with magic explicitly yet. It’s mostly been science based stuff for the first three episodes. So throwing that into the mix, it works really well in particular against cyborg, who is still dealing with a lot of the stuff that he was dealing with the past two episodes, just in terms of what is the actual origin, what is the relationship with his dad, how does his technology actually work? But at the same time, giving him this challenge of… technology isn’t necessarily the best. Magic also really works really nicely. It tests him in a different way. And it also tests him, immediately thrusting himself into a leadership role, which nobody likes anyway.

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              Yeah. I love the way that Kip uses… just brings in a lot of fun magic items, like sort of down to earth… The chewing gum. No, it’s knowing gum.

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              The beads dipped in Sriracha.

Pete:                Yeah, the Sriracha beads, the Janis Joplin floss. I mean, it was just one crazy item after another, but really fun. And getting to talk about Alex’s back and forth with Cyborg. I loved when he walked up, he was like, “[inaudible 00:19:04].”

Alex:                 Alex’s back and forth?

Pete:                Well, Alex… You were saying Cyborg and Kip’s back and forth was fun.

Alex:                 Oh, okay.

Pete:                When he was doing his, like, “All right, I’m just doing a weapons check.” That was really a fun day. I mean,

Alex:                 I mean, I’d love to be in the show if you’re casting, is all I’m saying.

Justin:              Are you classically trained? Because it only works to have one character, like Rita, who’s not classically trained as an actor.

Alex:                 Sure. Does eating a couple of dinners count as classically trained?

Justin:              Yeah, that’s what I mean by trained.

Alex:                 Okay.

Justin:              The way that Kip also sort of is helping to further open this door on who Caulder actually is, I think is cool. Especially with the stuff that Larry learns about what Caulder knows about his inner light being. Yeah.

Alex:                 Yeah. So what’s your theory on that, Justin?

Justin:              It’s hard… Very hard to say. The torture… So in the episode at least…

Pete:                Yeah, that was a… I was really hoping for positive news, not the fact that like, “Oh, he lives off tortured souls. So of course old Jackie Sneakers is going to be the one to go live with.”

Justin:              I really like the runner of Larry keeps waking up with this monitor on, and so the light being is trying to be like, “Here, watch this.”

Pete:                Watch this. Yeah.

Justin:              And then the idea that torture was what’s there is the one word we get out of the light being. I don’t think the light being is a malevolent spirit; a bad thing. Like despite the fact that he’s been really, you know, almost pranking Larry, or leaving him in compromising situations. I think he’s just frustrated trying to get Larry to be a better person, to be a hero. And so I think the light being, the word torture, I think it’s torture maybe being inside Larry when he’s at this low point.

Pete:                So the one word was out of context. He was trying to say a whole sentence, and we only heard torture. I love your positive… Because, you know, this episode was a little bit kind of like, maybe this light being isn’t the good guy we were hoping for.

Justin:              Well, he keeps trying to put Larry on a path for sure. Or I don’t think he’s… If he wanted Larry to die, he would do that. Or if he wanted things to go worse. Like there are definitely easier ways of him getting what he wants, if that’s just Larry to let him free more often or whatever.

Alex:                 Yeah. I will say I’m hesitating from answering anything that you’re saying, only because I don’t remember what I remember, I realized watching this episode. Like I remember the broad strokes of the episodes while I’m watching them, going, “Oh yeah. Okay. This is the one with that dude who is a book, and there’s a cult after him, and they end up in this weird city.” That is the stuff that I remembered. But the specifics of things, I didn’t necessarily remember where they come. So certainly… I don’t know. I think it sounds to me like you’re on the right track. I don’t think that’s necessarily remembering the plot, but certain structurally, I think it’s supposed to indicate what Pete is thinking, which is the negative spirit tortures Larry. But I do think it’s actually what you were saying, Justin, which is, “It is torture being in here,” or something along those lines.

Justin:              Yeah. It is torture not being able to do good, or whatever. I mean, we have to of find out eventually what the spirit actually is.

Alex:                 Yeah. Why don’t we move on to some of the other characters. We talked about Rita, we talked about Larry. We touched on Cyborg a little bit. Mostly he’s hanging out with Willoughby the entire episode, but the bit of him trying to be boss and nobody caring about it continues to be very, very fun throughout.

Pete:                Yeah. Yeah. The whole team and like, “Oh, they have a common goal. They are a team.” But I loved how he goes into lecture mode and it drives everybody insane. That’s really fun.

Alex:                 And also the… I was just going to mention the fight scene towards the end where he does team up with Willoughby before Willoughby betray him. Badass. It was very cool. The arm cannon’s very cool, the flaming sword is very cool. That was a lot of fun.

Justin:              Well, the visual of the villains being dead skin and unsent letters; very fun, very like Sandman, or… You know, more specifically, I thought if anyone’s out there looking for a comic book that is sort of like Kip outside of Constantine, Books of Magic, a comic that Neil Gaiman wrote for the first four issues of, and then had a very long series afterwards, has sort of similar ways of using magic and sort of this similar tone to it, as Kip.

Pete:                But it’s heartbreaking to know that there’s so many unsent letters out there. I mean that’s just…

Alex:                 I would just mention as another recommendation. If you’re looking for a comic book to check out, you should check out Doom Patrol.

Pete:                I thought you were going to say Unwritten because it has kind of a magical…

Alex:                 That’s actually a perfect choice.

Justin:              That is another good one. Pete, how many letters do you send on a daily basis?

Pete:                I tell you, if I write it, I send it, man. You know what I mean?

Justin:              A lot of those letters, if you actually look close to the screen, were signed P. LePage.

Pete:                I don’t think so. It did look like at one point though, Elliot had written down, and then it looked like a little drawing of a… someone drew like a dick on the side of his face.

Justin:              Yeah. He actually isn’t the cult, he’s a member of is a fraternity who… and he just passed out too close to the keg.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 So a couple of quick notes, just because I was looking this up. First of all, Willoughby was created by Grant Morrison and Richard Case for Doom Patrol volume two, number 31 in 1990. He was in the comic books for about two years. And in fact, in the comics as well, Willoughby was created because they weren’t allowed to use Constantine. Because they didn’t want to spoil the realism of the character. And so instead of basing him on Sting’s appearance, like Constantine, he was meant to look like Richard E. Grant’s character from Withnail & I.

Justin:              Oh. Yes.

Alex:                 Yeah. And if you don’t know Richard E. Grant, he also played Old Loki on Loki, for example.

Pete:                Oh, nice.

Alex:                 Yeah.

Justin:              Withnail & I, great cult movie if you’ve never seen it.

Alex:                 But yeah. There you go. We should talk about Jane as well. We haven’t touched on Jane at all in this episode. A lot of her stuff is just digging into Cliff more than anything. How are you… We talked about this a little bit the last episode, but how are you feeling about their relationship as it continues to develop or fracture apart?

Justin:              Yeah, it feels like they’re falling apart a bit. And we get a lot of gesture toward their sort of father, daughter relationship that I think Cliff maybe likes, but is a little weird about. And she seems to not like; doesn’t want it or doesn’t need it. I mean then we have this dream sequence at the beginning of the episode, and then later the cult makes them see the different perspectives of how they feel.

Alex:                 Yeah. That was heartbreaking.

Justin:              [crosstalk 00:26:07] Each other. And then what they actually are, which I thought was a great little montage bit. This show does such a great job of constantly refocusing the perspective of the characters; what they think of themselves and each other. So I think that’s really… They’re very smart about that.

Alex:                 Pete, were you going to say something about this?

Pete:                Well, yeah. It was just kind of like this heartbreaking thing where you… Cliff’s in between dreams, and he’s himself and then he’s not. But the fact that it goes from such a sweet moment of him with his daughter to like, “Oh, him and Jane are actually having this nice moment,” and then wake up, abrupt reality, “Get away from me.” You know, like, “It’s bad, what you did.”

Pete:                And what was weird is also Cliff’s like, “What are you talking about?” As soon as she said, “The place,” I was like, “Yeah, dude. It’s because you were like covered in blood from ripping Nazis in half. How did you not know that?”

Justin:              What I don’t understand about Jane’s point of view here is she’s pissed at him because he’s a toxic man.

Pete:                Right.

Justin:              But in that same fight, she killed a bunch of people. Like she killed the main dude.

Pete:                Right. But that wasn’t… That was a different… You know what I mean? That was a different person who killed… And so one of the other people were judging.

Alex:                 I would argue… I think that’s the thing she’s going to have to come around to realize, is she… We were talking about this the last episode as well. She constantly just pushes against everybody. She’s like, “You’re wrong. I’m right.” That’s her MO in every single situation for these first four episodes. Like a real Zalben is how I’d refer to her. How I’d refer to her, Pete. Not you.

Pete:                No, I got it.

Alex:                 Okay? All right?

Pete:                No, I got… Yeah.

Alex:                 Me. I’d refer to it that way. Anyway, just to own that. I’m going to own that from now on. Anyway, she pushes back on everything because that’s her MO, and I think that’s what she’s doing with Cliff is she’s seeing him as this one thing; as this toxic man who likes to kill people, because that’s how she sees him and that’s it. We know there’s a lot more to him, just based on the mere fact that he’s Brendan Fraser, and we know Brendan Fraser deep down is a nice guy, when would we look at…

Pete:                We know that?

Justin:              Wow. Okay.

Alex:                 We do. But also… You said it in the first episode, Justin.

Justin:              I didn’t say deep down, he’s a nice guy. What are you…

Alex:                 All right. Roll the tape.

Justin:              What, did you spend last summer with him? Roll the tape.

Alex:                 Yeah. In the Hamptons. It was very nice. I was like, “Take the Scorsese movie. Come on.” And he was like, “I don’ know. I want to do Mummy five.” And I was like, “Take the Scorsese.”

Pete:                The Scorsese. Scorsese. I thought-

Justin:              We do-

Pete:                Okay, go ahead.

Justin:              I was going to say, we do ride with Cliff maybe the most in the show, and so we do know him internally. But I would say he puts his himself out enough to the other characters, including Jane where he like… She should be able to know that he’s not the monster that she saw him in that one moment.

Pete:                But I do think it’s a self defense thing of pushing people away, pushing people away. And what I’m hoping what will happen, because [inaudible 00:29:22] I can’t really remember is that if he keeps staying and being steady that he will win her over. You know what I mean? Like if he’s like, “All right, this is what you need to do. Fine. I can take it. I’m a brain and a robot suit.”

Alex:                 I’ll throw another idea out at you. Maybe it’s more along these lines. The fact that, because Jane has all of these personalities, she’s completely split, she does the opposite to people and boils them immediately down to one thing. And the thing that she’s boiled Cliff down to is toxic man. That’s it. That’s the only thing he is going on. And that’s a way of maybe ignoring her own personalities, her own thing that’s going on, is putting it on these other people, distilling them down to their basic essence because that’s something either she’s scared of in herself, or just can’t do in herself.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 Potentially. I don’t know.

Pete:                Yeah. I would like to say though, Cliff was killing me in this episode. Some really funny lines. Like when they get to the place, the snow globe place, and he’s just like “Clowns? Nope.” Like he turns around like he’s going to walk out. Oh, that was hysterical man.

Alex:                 One other thing that I wanted to mention that is almost apropos of nothing in the show. And I know we like to keep really focused here on this podcast, but I just found out last night, I don’t know if you guys have seen it Encanto, the new Disney movie that’s on Disney plus. Luisa, the beautiful older sister is voiced by Diane Guerrero who plays Jane on the show.

Pete:                Oh wow.

Alex:                 And she’s also the singing voice, and has a really beautiful singing voice. So I don’t think we’ve heard her sing on Doom Patrol, but it feels like a natural fit if they ever want to go in that direction.

Pete:                Wow.

Justin:              Well maybe they will in one of the upcoming episodes, which are to be continued.

Alex:                 Song Patrol, maybe. I don’t know. Just throwing something out there. What else should we talk about in this episode? Yes, Pete.

Pete:                I want to talk about how Cliff walked up to a Trainor and was like, “You believe a blue horse head?” And he just was like, “Yeah.” It was just… It was a very funny little moment.

Alex:                 We haven’t even talked about the blue horse head yet, which is amazing. It’s just [crosstalk 00:31:39].

Pete:                A nail on the head… Instead of like a unicorn horn, it a had a nail going the other way. It looked very painful.

Alex:                 I really like the line, “I don’t know if I trust Kipling, but I… I don’t know if I trust Kipling, but I believe the blue horse head.”

Pete:                Yep.

Alex:                 That’s a good line.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 Good stuff.

Justin:              Horse with No Name song by America.

Alex:                 Yeah. Also speaking of songs, love the joke with Kipling, “What does he actually do?” Like the last slide of the episode is, “Maybe I should have done a hard day’s night.” But earlier on he does another Beetles song because could never remember the lyrics to Hard Days Night. Was it Love Me Do?

Justin:              Love Me Do, I believe.

Alex:                 Yeah. Which is easier to remember.

Justin:              A hundred percent. Except in this case where you couldn’t remember it.

Pete:                Yeah, exactly.

Alex:                 Yeah. Go ahead, Pete.

Pete:                I was just going to say, those nuns were crazy creepy.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 What did you think about the fact-

Justin:              They were back in the habit.

Alex:                 Speaking of religious people, the dude with the stigmata was named Father Cuervo, which I thought was pretty interesting because we originally, and were all very in favor of this, wanted to call this podcast Doom Patron, and every episode we’d review an episode of Doom Patrol and tasted tequila live on the show, and then Pete said, “Oh, I don’t like tequila.” So we didn’t do that.

Pete:                Well, I can’t drink tequila because I had a couple really bad nights in college. And so I don’t want to…

Justin:              What do you mean by bad?

Alex:                 Pete had a bottle of Oops! All Worms.

Pete:                Yeah.

Justin:              Wow. Big mistake. Big mix up in the factory over there.

Alex:                 You had a bad tequila night in college? I had a bad wine cooler night in college. That’s why I can’t have wine coolers anymore. I think that otherwise I would love to have…

Justin:              Yeah. Wow. Dodged a bullet there. Mr. Bartles & Jaymes?

Pete:                You Don’t have a drink that you no longer do because of maybe an over excessive evening?

Alex:                 Who are you asking? I just said wide coolers.

Pete:                I know you just said that, so I’m asking the other person in the podcast who maybe has an opinion about this.

Justin:              I mean, I guess Yeager bombs is something I don’t do, but that’s just a biological, physiological change. For the better. My first bad drinking experience was with vodka. And I don’t really enjoy that. Except of course in bloody marys and most other cocktails that feature vodka.

Pete:                Except for any other mixed drink that maybe has it in it.

Alex:                 And this bottle of vodka that I’m drinking right now. For 13th breakfast.

Justin:              I guess it’s more specifically I don’t want to drink a plastic liter of Lord Calvert vodka, that can be found in the worst liquor stores.

Alex:                 Well, you’re going to be really bummed out when I come over for breakfast tomorrow.

Justin:              Don’t you mean snack?

Alex:                 Snack. Snack time. Sorry about that. Couple of other things that I really like just to call out as I’m going through here, right at the beginning, “You get down here and eat your fucking cake, Elliot.” Fun line right at the top of the episode.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 The… I think this was cyborg. I didn’t note it down. But him saying, “Do you want to find the chief?” And everybody’s like, “Sure.”

Justin:              Sure. Yeah. I guess.

Alex:                 They really could care less. Also, this was Cliff’s line, “Who is this guy? Is he someone’s uncle?”

Pete:                That was a good line. Yeah.

Justin:              Yes.

Alex:                 Just so many great lines in every episode. I feel like you [crosstalk 00:35:05].

Justin:              “I knit, okay?”

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Yeah. Good stuff. What did you think about Cyborg’s revelation? This was interesting to me on a DC universe perspective, that there are 37 dimensions. And I bring that up because DC is so laser focused on the number 52, it was surprising to me.

Pete:                It was surprising.

Justin:              I agree. Weird to call out 37 when the… If you’re going to put any number in there, it would be 52.

Alex:                 Maybe… I haven’t gone back and count. Maybe it’s the number of DC shows, or something at that point. Maybe there’re potentially 37 different multiverses out there through the various movies and TV shows. But yeah, little bit of a strange thing. Also Willoughby’s different spell stuff was very fun. I wrote down Janis Joplin’s dental floss.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 Love to know more about that at.

Justin:              Yeah.

Pete:                Yeah. I mean, there was just some really, really like over the top, insane moments happening back to back where you’re like, “Wait, what is this? They’re made of… When you shoot them, they, they turn into letters?” That was crazy, fun visual. Also, yeah, I just love the fact that we had the magic and Cyborg just kind of side by side, kicking ass. I know Alex had mentioned it a little bit, but just seeing Cyborg happy and doing well was really kind of a small moment, but great moment to see. And also I loved how he had this kind of super bomb that he could light up. That was pretty cool.

Alex:                 Yeah.

Justin:              Yeah.

Alex:                 What did you think about the revelation that all of Nurnheim is in a snow globe in Doom Manor, which is very St. Elsewhere.

Pete:                It’s a fun. That’s just fun. The show’s having been a great time. I thought that was hilarious. Because when they got there and it looked like little board, fake houses, it’s like, “Okay, well what is this?” You know?

Justin:              Well, and it just continues to point to… this whole show is about Caulder, about the father figure, leaving without having anything figured out. So if he was there, he could just be like, “Oh it’s right over there. Let’s go smush it,” or do whatever they need to do to stop this from happening. But instead, the kids, the Doom Patrol have to figure it out for themselves.

Alex:                 Yeah. Any other moments before we start to wrap up here? Anything else you want to call out?

Justin:              Now when the big eye appears, it’s a left eye, right?

Pete:                What?

Justin:              The way the eye is shaped, it’s like a left eye.

Alex:                 Sure. Yeah.

Pete:                What are you… What are you trying to say, Left Eye Lopez? What are you doing?

Justin:              I’m just saying, do you think we’re going to get a right eye, or do you think we’re going to get the rest of the group?

Pete:                I think it’s the mind’s eye. It’s the middle eye. I don’t think there’s like a, you know…

Justin:              But I’m telling you, if you look at the eye it has a shape of a left eye.

Alex:                 Lopez?

Pete:                Do you… I don’t think there’s a difference between your left and your right eye, guy. I don’t know what you’re saying.

Alex:                 What? Yes, of course there is. What are you talking about?

Pete:                I don’t know. He was like, “Oh, this is… “

Justin:              [crosstalk 00:38:22].

Pete:                You look at a giant eye in the sky, and you’re like, “Well this is definitely a left eye guys. Everybody just be careful.”

Alex:                 Your eyes are not the same.

Pete:                I mean, I understand a little bit, but I’m just saying it’s funny…

Alex:                 Sorry we’re not as conventionally attractive as you Pete, with perfectly symmetrical eyes.

Pete:                I just think that that’s a funny thing to… You see a giant eye in this sky, and you’re like, “Well that’s clearly a left eye.” It’s just funny that…

Justin:              Well, if it was a left eyed, I’d be looking for the T-Boz.

Pete:                I’m looking the waterfall. But then I shouldn’t chase it, but, you know.

Alex:                 Fair enough. Why don’t we move on and talk about who was most doomed this episode. Pete, who was most doomed this episode?

Pete:                Well, I’ll tell ya, seems like old Sneaky Trainor is the most doomed because he has yet to move forward. And I’m also… I was really worried that the light being let the kid go. Like what was that move? You know what I mean? Like that kind of gets brushed past for all the madness, but I was pretty disappointed in the light being’s plan to just let the kid go.

Justin:              Well, maybe the light being knew that the cult was coming there and ends up getting him, and sort of killing him to create the left eye in the sky.

Pete:                All right.

Alex:                 Justin, what about you?

Pete:                Left eye in the sky.

Justin:              Most doomed. I mean, the easy answer is what I was just talking about. Elliot is capital D doomed. He’s doomed from his birth. He’s got a tough birthday party situation, no friends, only his parents invited, which you got to wonder, why get all the balloons? Why get all the balloons?

Alex:                 Right? I’ve got to throw out Jane as most doomed this episode. We didn’t touch on it too much, but she seems to be at a pretty bad place to the point that she’s completely regressed into her own head. Isn’t even a peering anymore. We meet Penny Farthing this episode. We got that very funny line, “Back me up Tiny Tim,” from Cliff. Which is all good, but not only is she battling Cliff, but she seems to be entirely lost here. She doesn’t know necessarily what her place is. Versus last episode when she was stepping up and being a hero for the first time. So it’s a big change from one episode to the other. It makes me very worried about her going into the right cheek episode, if you will.

Pete:                Yeah.

Alex:                 We’re calling it that.

Justin:              You know what guys? This is a great place to be, because we’re right in between the left and right cheeks. We are like hovering and over the butt hole. It’s right where you want to be.

Pete:                Ah, I don’t know about that.

Alex:                 Is that where the eyes are by the way? They say the butt hole is the eye of the cheeks. If you’d like support this podcast, patreon.com/comicbookclub, or-

Pete:                Why would you support us after that line?

Alex:                 … patron.com/comicbookclub.

Justin:              Wait, don’t…

Alex:                 I don’t know. Send us some Patron.

Pete:                Aren’t I supposed to…

Alex:                 iTunes, Android, Spotify, Stitcher, or the app of your choice to subscribe and listen to the show. @comicbooklive on Twitter, comicbookclublive.com for this podcast and many more. And over eager Pete, you get to finish off the episode with a piece of advice. Take it away.

Pete:                Don’t join cults. You’re enough, okay? You know, just get on a chat room and find some people with some like interests. But don’t join the-

Justin:              A chat room? That’s a very culty place to go.

Pete:                Don’t join cults.

Alex:                 Find a chat room. Just let me know what your age, sex and language are.

Pete:                Whoa, whoa.

Alex:                 You know. Whatever’s going on. ASL.

Justin:              Pete, I can’t believe you’re asking people to go chasing waterfalls, when I would think you would tell them to don’t go chasing waterfalls.

Pete:                Stick to the rivers and the streams that you’re used to.

Alex:                 It’s right there.

Pete:                Is it rivers and lakes?

Justin:              I want to try out some new rivers. And streams. I want to try a new stream.

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